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Marriage record Help.

Marriage record Help.

Posted: 11 Jan 2013 10:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Cleary
Can anybody help me locate a marriage record in 1881 for :
John Cleary from Thurles, Ireland and Johanna Barrett from Cashel Ireland.

I have had a good look around ancestry and family search but i have had no luck. Many Thanks

Also if you no any websites to get family history from Ireland that would be great, i am finding doing a irish tree very hard on here.

Re: Marriage record Help.

Posted: 19 Jan 2013 6:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Tina and David,

I found the civil marriage index for John Cleary and Johanna Barrett at the Irish Family History Foundation (IFHF) website for County Tipperary (South), which shows they were married in Cashel in 1880.

The index follows:


1 match for the search criteria: Cleary (plus variants) John 1880 Parish: CASHEL (CP)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Cleary
First Name: John
Spouse's Surname: Barrett
Spouse's First Name: Johanna
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name:
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1880

Parish/District: Parish: CASHEL (CP)
____


Traditionally, civil marriage indexes in Ireland and England from this time period also provide the names of the fathers of the groom and bride, but the IFHF does not provide this information automatically. You either have to know the names of the fathers, or find out what their names were through additional research. Two other ways of learning the names of the fathers in a marriage record are to guess as to what they were, or just go ahead and order a transcription for the marriage from the IFHF.

I decided to guess as to what the first names of John and Johanna’s fathers were. First John. After only a few tries, the IFHF search engine accepted John as his father’s first name. In this instance, the search engine indicated that John’s mother’s name was also part of the marriage record. Guessing her first name was a bit more of a challenge, but after several attempts, the search engine accepted Cashel, as her first name. I don’t know if the marriage record also includes a maiden name for Cashel. I have some doubts about Cashel being the first name of John’s mother, and am wondering if this is an error in transcription, or a mistake made by the local registrar on the original marriage cert filed in 1880.

The revised marriage index with the first names of the John’s parents, follows.

1 match for the search criteria: Cleary (plus variants) John 1880 Parish: CASHEL (CP)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Cleary
First Name: John
Spouse's Surname: Barrett
Spouse's First Name: Johanna
Father's Surname: Cleary
Father's First Name: Patrick
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Cashel

Year: 1880

Parish/District: Parish: CASHEL (CP)
____


Next, with Johanna Barrett as the primary partner in the marriage index, I wanted to see if I could find the first names of her parents. The IFHF search engine accepted Patrick for her father, and only the initial D. for her mother:


1 match for the search criteria: Barrett (plus variants) Johanna 1880 Parish: CASHEL (CP)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Barrett
First Name: Johanna
Spouse's Surname: Cleary
Spouse's First Name:John
Father's Surname: Barrett
Father's First Name: John
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: D.

Year: 1880

Parish/District: Parish: CASHEL (CP)
____


The IFHF homepage can be found at: http://www.rootsireland.ie/

Before accessing indexes at the IFHF you’ll first have to register. Registration is free. You’ll also be able to access the marriage index for John and Johanna that I did for free, but you will be charged to obtain a transcription of the marriage. You’ll have to purchase credits with a credit card to obtain the transcriptions. Once the credit card information is given, it will only take a minute or so for the marriage transcription to be sent to your computer electronically, so that you won’t have to wait for it.

The IFHF website will have more information about purchasing credits for baptism, as well as birth, marriage, and death or burial transcriptions.

I then wanted to see if John and Johanna had any children born in the Cashel area of County Tipperary South. I found one civil birth index for a child of theirs named John, born in 1881:


1 match for the search criteria: Cleary (plus variants) John 1881 Parish: CASHEL (CP)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperry (South)
Surname: Cleary
First Name: John
Father's Surname: Cleary
Father's First Name: John
Mother's Surname: Barrett
Mother's First Name: Johanna

Year: 1881

Parish/District: CASHEL (CP)
____


You can order John Clear’s birth record transcription from the IFHF with your credit card.


For more information about Cashel, to view photos of the town, and to take an audio tour of Cashel, go to the following links:

http://tinyurl.com/bj7aaag

http://www.cashel.ie/

http://www.cashel.ie/audio/CashelAudioTourEnglish.mp3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Cashel

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g212096-d190066/Cashel:Ire...


The marriage for John Cleary and Johanna Barrett, as well as the birth of their son John, are only transcriptions compiled by the IFHF from the original civil marriage and birth records. But, you can obtain copies of the original marriage record for John and Johanna, as well as a copy of the original birth cert for their son John, from the General Register Office (GRO) in Roscommon Town, County Roscommon. For information about obtaining civil birth, marriage, and death records from the GRO, the fees involved, as well as downloading application forms for marriage and birth records, go to the GRO website at: www.groireland.ie/


I learned through additional research at the IFHF’s, “Genealogical Sources Available Online,” that the Catholic Church records of baptisms and marriages for Cashel have not been indexed or transcribed as yet. Nor have the Catholic Church baptism and marriage records for Thurles, where the family is residing as shown in the 1901 and 1911 census returns. You’ll want to check back with the IFHF at least once a month or so to see if the Catholic Church parish records for Cashel and Thurles have been added for research. If these records are added to the website, you’ll be able to look for the church marriage index for John and Johanna, as well as the baptism indexes for more of their children. You may even be able to uncover the individual baptisms for John Cleary and Johanna Barrett, as well as the marriage of their respective parents, if the registers go back far enough in time.

I believe you already have found the Clearys in the 1911 census, but am not sure if you had located them in the 1901 enumeration. The 1901 census shows that Johanna Cleary is married, but that her husband is not in the household with her and her 5 children. As you know the 1911 census shows that John, Johanna, and their children are living in an address of House No. 115, in Stradavoher, Thurles Urban, County Tipperary.

The 1901 census has the family’s address at House No. 73, Stradavoher, Thurles Town, County Tipperary. (As an aside, my Tipperary cousins pronounce the name of this town as “Turless”).

The 1901 census shows that Johanna Cleary is a 38 year old married, general domestic servant, born in County Tipperary. The census also states that she cannot read. But, if you go to the 1911 census, you’ll see that she can read and write. In any event the 1901 census further shows that Johanna is Roman Catholic, as are her five children in the household. These children, all born in County Tipperary, are 15 year old Catherine, employed as a laundress; 13 year old Patrick; 8 year old Thomas; 6 year old Michael; and 3 year old Joseph. If you recall, the IFHF birth index earlier had shown that John and Johanna’s son John was born in 1881. But, he is not in the household with Johanna and his siblings in the 1901 census. By the 1901 census he may have been out on his own, or married, or he may have been deceased by 1901.

The 1901 census transcription for Johanna Cleary and her children is from the National Archives of Ireland website link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

The transcription follows:


1901 Census of Ireland


Residents of a house 73 in Stradavoher (Thurles Town, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language
Marital Status Specified Illnesses

Cleary Johanna 38 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary General Servant-Domestic Cannot read Married
Cleary Catherine 15 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Laundress Read and write Not Married
Cleary Patrick 13 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write Not Married
Cleary Thomas 8 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write Not Married
Cleary Michael 6 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read only Not Married
Cleary Joseph 3 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Cannot read Not Married
____


To view a copy of the original 1901 census for the Cleary family, go to the National Archives of Ireland link at:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001171026/

To see where Stradavoher is situated on a modern Google Map of Thurles, go to the link at: http://tinyurl.com/bdk9xbj

Once at the map you’ll see that Stradavoher is located just southwest of the Thurles Town Centre, or Townparks. The letter A will be pointing at Stradavoher. Next, left-click on the letter A to generate a “Street view” thumbnail photo of Stradavoher, then click on the photo to enlarge it, and you’ll be able to take a virtual tour of this section of Thurles with your mouse and pointer. You’ll also be able to navigate your way into Thurles proper.

You can also take a virtual tour of Cashel and drive by the Rock of Cashel. To do so, go to the Google Map link at:
http://tinyurl.com/b2agtql

Left-click on the letter A to generate a “Street view” photo of Cashel, and then click on the photo.

If you haven’t already been to the Rock of Cashel, I hope you can make it there someday, as it really is a spectacular site.

Best Wishes Tina and David,

Dave Boylan

Re: Marriage record Help.

Posted: 4 Aug 2013 10:58PM GMT
Classification: Query
Ireland reaching out is a very good site
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