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Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 11 Nov 2013 11:13AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 Nov 2013 11:17AM GMT
Hi all
I am trying to trace back my line on my mother's side; I have traced it back to a Thomas Phillips born in Radnorshire in 1817 who married an Elizabeth Watkins, giving birth to Thomas.

This Thomas moved to London and became a tailor, according to the 1861 Census, running his own business.

Has anyone researched this line before - and if so, what have they found going back, if anything? Is there any info for the tailor business that Thomas operated. It does seem quite notable but it did not go down future lines.

I am posting in other parts of this forum for forward info so would welcome historical information here too

Nick

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 16 Nov 2013 5:51AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Nick,

I’m not a descendant, and haven’t been researching the Phillips and Watkins families, nor have I uncovered any further information about Thomas Phillps’s tailor business, except in census returns. But I do believe I found out who Thomas’s father was. I also learned who Elizabeth’s Watkins’s father was.

Also, Thomas and Elizabeth’s places of birth are listed in the 1861 census you mentioned, when the Phillips’ household was living in 27 Belitha Terrace, Islington, London.


I’ve transcribed the 1861 census from Ancestry.com below for quick review:


1861 England Census

Civil Parish: Islington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Address: 27 Belitha Ter

Registration District: Islington
Sub-registration District: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 18

Household Schedule Number: 81
Piece: 127
Folio: 118
Page Number: 14

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Where Born

Thomas Phillips, Head, Married, Male, 44, Tailor Master Employing 2 Men, Radnorshire Evenjo
Elizabeth M Phillips, Wife, Married, Fenale, 40, Devon Gt Torrington
Margaret Phillips, Daughter, Female, 13, Herefordshire Kingston
Matilda Phillips, Daughter, Female, 11, Herefordshire Kingston
William Phillips, Son, Male, 9, Herefordshire Kingston
Alfred Phillips, Son, Male, 8, Herefordshire Kingston
Sarah Ann Phillips, Daughter, Female, 5, Herefordshire Kingston
Thomas Phillips, Son, Male, 3, Herefordshire Kingston
Edith M Phillips, Daughter, Female, 1, Herefordshire Kingston

Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 127; Folio: 118; Page: 14; GSU roll: 542578.
____


The 1861 census shows that 44 year old Thomas Phillips was born in “Evenjo,” Radnorshire. This is a reference to a village called Evenjobb in Radnorshire. For information about Evenjobb, go to:
http://www.rgreen.org.uk/Evenjobb.html

Thomas’s wife Elizabeth, according to the census, was born in Gt Torrington, that is, Great Torrington, Devonshire. You can read about Great Torrington, Devonshire by going to the Wikipedia article at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Torrington

The 1861 census also shows that all of Thomas and Elizabeth’s children were born in “Kingston,” Herefordshire.” This is actually a reference to Kington, Herefordshire.

I can give you an example showing how Evenjobb in Radnorshire, and Kington in Herefordshire, are situated near one another through the following information.

You’ll notice in the 1861 census that Edith M. Phillips was 1 year old and born in “Kingston,” Herefordshire. As noted above, this is a reference to Kington.

I found Edith M’s civil birth index at the FreeBMD website at: http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

This index shows that Edith’s middle name was Mary, and that her birth was recorded in the Presteigne Registration District for the March quarter of 1860. The names of her parents are not listed in the index, which follows:


Birth March Quarter 1860

Edith Mary Phillips

Registration District: Presteigne

Volume: 11b

Page: 171
____


Today, the General Register Office (GRO) in Southport, England, holds civil birth, marriage, and death records for England and Wales beginning with the September quarter of 1837. Edith’s birth record can be found in Volume 11b, Page 171 of the GRO registers. Her birth cert will give you an exact date and place of birth, the names of her parents, including her mother’s maiden name, and her father’s occupation.

You can order Edith’s birth record online from the GRO website link at:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

The Presteigne Registration District, where Edith’s birth was recorded, spanned the counties of Herefordshire and Radnorshire. You can see the names of the towns and parishes which fell under the jurisdiction of the Presteigne Registration District at the GenUKI website link at: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/presteigne.html

The town and parishes are listed alphabetically in the Presteigne Registration District. If you scroll down the page you’ll see that Evenjobb, in Radnorshire, and Kington, in Herefordshire, were in the Presteign Registration District.

This means that Thomas Phillips’s children were born not far from where he was born in Evenjobb, Radnorshire.

For more information about Presteign, go to the following links:

http://history.powys.org.uk/history/prest/presmenu.html

http://history.powys.org.uk/history/prest/presint.html

The 1861 census shows the oldest child in the Phillips household is 13 year old Margaret, while the youngest is the aforementioned Edith Mary. Both children were born in Kington. This means that Thomas and Elizabeth had moved their family from Herefordshire just the year before they were enumerated in the 1861 census in London.

The age of Margaret in the 1861 census also means that the family should be found in the 1851 census in Kington, Herefordshire. I looked for the family in the 1851 census and found them living in an address of what appears to be Duke Street, Kington, Herefordshire. Portions of the census are difficult to read, and so I can’t be 100 percent certain the street where the family lived was Duke Street.

The 1851 census shows that Thomas Phillips is a 34 year old tailor. But, the census shows that he was born in Walton, Radnorshire, rather than Evenjobb. If you go back to the GenUKI page for the towns and parishes in the Presteigne registration District, you’ll see that the parishes of Walton & Womaston, were situated in Radnorshire.

The 1851 census also shows that 30 year Elizabeth Phillips was born in Devonshire. There are four children in the household with Thomas and Elizabeth. These are 5 year old Mary S. Phillips; 3 year old Elizabeth M. Phillips; and 1 year old Matilda Phillips. I couldn’t quite make out the place of birth for Mary S. Phillips in a copy of the original census at Ancestry.com, but it appears to be Kington. Elizabeth and Matilda were born in Kington. Also in the household is a servant, 15 year old Elizabeth Pugh, born in Kington. The census transcription below is from Ancestry.com, as are all the other census enumerations found in this reply:


1851 England Census

Civil Parish: Kington

Town: Kington

County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Address: Duke St

Registration District: Presteigne
Sub-registration District: Brilley
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Household Schedule Number: 98
Piece: 2492
Folio: 285
Page Number: 23

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Where Born

Thomas Phillips, Head, Married, Male, 34, Tailor, Walton Radnorshire
Elizabeth Phillips, Wife, Married, Female, 30, Devonshire
Mary S Phillips, Daughter, Unmarried, Female, 5, Scholar, Kington ?
Elizabeth M Phillips, Daughter, Unmarried, Female, 3, Kington Hereford
Matilda Phillips, Daughter, Unmarried, Female, 1, Kington Hereford
Elizabeth Pugh, Servant, Unmarried, Female, 15, Ho Servt, Kington Hereford

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2492; Folio: 285; Page: 23; GSU roll: 104254.
____


Next I found the marriage index for Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Watkins at the Latter Day Saints (LDS) FamilySearch website at: https://familysearch.org/

The index shows that Thomas and Elizabeth were married in the Marden, Hereford, Church of England on 30 November 1843. The index notes that Thomas’s father was also named Thomas and that Elizabeth’s father was John Watkins. The names of Thomas and Elizabeth’s mothers are not recorded.

The index is below:


Thomas Phillips, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "

Name: Thomas Phillips
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:

Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Watkins
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:

Event Date: 30 Nov 1843
Event Place: Marden, Hereford, England

Father's Name: Thomas Phillips
Mother's Name:

Spouse's Father's Name: John Watkins
Spouse's Mother's Name:

Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:

Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M14628-5System Origin: England-VR
Reference ID: 2:1NHN0BR

GS Film number: 1594773 = Parish registers for Marden.
Author: Church of England. Parish Church of Marden (Herefordshire):
Baptisms, 1886-1961. Marriages, 1837-1952.

Citing this Record
"England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFV7-MLQ : accessed 12 Nov 2013), Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Watkins, 30 Nov 1843.
____


The marriage record can be found in GS microfilm number 1594773. You can order this film from your nearest family History Center. The GS stands for Genealogical Society of Utah. The LDS church is headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah.

The Church of England in Marden is dedicated to Saint Mary the Virgin. For information as well as photos go to: http://churchdb.gukutils.org.uk/HEF136.php

I also located the GRO civil marriage index for Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Watkins at the FreeBMD website. The index shows the marriage was recorded in the Hereford Registration District for the December quarter of 1843. The marriage record can be found in Volume 26, Page 241 of the GRO registers.

The index also names other people whose marriages were recorded in the Hereford Registration District for the December quarter of 1843:


Marriages December Quarter 1843

John Godshall
Jane Hall
Thomas Phillips
James Pritchard
Elizabeth Watkins

Registration District: Hereford

Volume: 26

Page: 241
____


You can read the names of the towns and parishes located in the Hereford Registration District at the following GenUKI link: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/hereford.html

You’ll see that Marden was situated in the Hereford Registration District.

I next looked for Thomas and Elizabeth and their children in the 1871 census, thinking they would still be in London. But the 1871 census shows that 54 year old Thomas and his 50 year old wife Elizabeth, and their children, were living in in an address of No. 40 George Street, Worcester, Worcestershire. The census shows that Thomas was employed as a tailor and that he was born in “Evenjob.” Elizabeth’s birthplace is listed as Devonshire, Grt “Torendon.”

There are five children in the household with Thomas and Elizabeth. The Ancestry.com index notes the four oldest children were born in Kington Herefordshire. The youngest Phillips child was born in Islington, Middlesex.

The children are 19 year old William, who, like his father, was a tailor; 18 year old Alfred, employed as a commercial clerk; 12 year old Thomas, 11 year old Edith M., and 9 year old Alice M. Phillips. These three children are listed as scholars, that is students. Alice was born in Islington, London:


1871 England Census

Civil Parish: St Peter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul

Town: Worcester

Adrress: No. 40 George St.

County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Registration District: Worcester
Sub-registration District: South Worcester
ED, institution, or vessel: 15a

Household Schedule Number: 93
Piece: 3052
Folio: 147
Page Number: 18

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Where Born

Thomas Phillips, Head, Married, Male, 54, Tailor, Radnorshire Evenjob
Elizabeth M Phillips, Wife, Married, Female, 50, Devonshire Grt Torenden
William Phillips, Son, Unmarried, Male, 19, Tailor, Herefordshire, Kington
Alfred Phillips, Son, Unmarried, Male, 18, Commercial Clerk, Herefordshire, Kington
Thomas Phillips, Son, Male, 12, Scholar, Herefordshire, Kington
Edith M Phillips, Daughter, Female, 11, Scholar, Herefordshire, Kington
Alice M Phillips, Daughter, Female, 9, Scholar, Middlesex; Islington

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3052; Folio: 147; Page: 18; GSU roll: 838879.
____


By the 1881 census 64 year old Thomas and 60 year old Elizabeth Phillips and their children had moved back to London. Their address is 25 Tavistock Place, Pancras. Thomas is shown to be a tailor who was born in Evenist, Radnor. I couldn’t find a reference to Evenist in Radnorshire, and so this place may actually refer to Evenjobb.

The 1881 census also shows that Elizabeth was born in Torrington, Devonshire. Three of Thomas and Elizabeth’s children are in the household with them. They are 28 year old Alfred C., employed as an accountant’s clerk; 22 year old Thomas, employed as an ironmonger’s assistant; and 21 year old Edith M. Phillips. The children were born in Kington, though the Ancestry.com index for this enumeration lists their place of birth as Knighton, Hereford:


1881 England Census

Civil Parish: Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 25 Tavistock Pl

Registration District: Pancras
Sub-registration District: Tottenham Court
ED, institution, or vessel: 14a
Piece: 189
Folio: 8
Page Number: 9

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Where Born

Thomas Phillips, Head, Married, Male, 64, Tailor, Radnor Evenist
Elizabeth Phillips, Wife, Married, Female, 60, Devonshire Torrington
Alfred C. Phillips, Son, Unmarried, Male, 28, Accountants Clerk, Hereford Kington
Thomas Phillips, Son, Unmarried, Male, 22, Ironmongers Assistant, Hereford Kington
Edith M. Phillips, Daughter, Unmarried, Female, 21, Hereford Kington

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 189; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 1341042.
____


By the 1891 census the older Thomas Phillips is deceased, as 72 year old Elizabeth Matilda Phillips, is shown to be a widow, living in the household of her son-in-law, 27 year old Arthur Townley, who owns his own ironmonger’s furnishing company, and who was born in Manchester, Lancashire. The address of the family is 70 Downing Street, Manchester.

Arthur’s wife is 29 year old Edith Mary Townley, born Kington, Herefordshire. Edith would be Elizabeth Phillips’s daughter. If you go back to the 1881 census for the Phillips household in Pancras, London, you’ll see that 22 year old Thomas Phillips is employed as an ironmonger’s assistant. This makes you wonder if Edith met Arthur Townley through her brother Thomas.

The 1891 census further shows that Arthur and Edith have two children. These are 4 year old Lillie and 2 year old Alice, both born in Manchester. The census also shows that Elizabeth Matilda Phillips was living on her own means. This is the first instance where I learned that Elizabeth’s middle name was Matilda. The census shows that Elizabeth was born in Gt Farrington, Devonshire. This is likely a reference to Great Torrington, though there is a town called Farrington in Devonshire:


1891 England Census

Civil Parish: Chorlton on Medlock
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke

Town: Manchester

County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 70 Downing St.

Registration District: Chorlton
Sub-registration District: Chorlton upon Medlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 3183
Folio: 20
Page Number: 4

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Empolyer/Employed/ Neither Employer nor Employed, Where Born

Arthur Townley, Head, Married, Male, 27, Furnishing Ironmonger, Employer, Lancashire Mchester
Edith Mary Townley, Wife, Married, Female, 29, Hereford Kington
Lillie Townley, Daughter, Single, Female, 4, Lancaster Mchester
Alice Townley, Daughter, Single, Female, 2, Lancaster Mchester
Elizth Matilda Philips, Mother in Law, Widow, Female, 72, Living on her own means, Devonshire Gt Farrington

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3183; Folio: 20; Page: 4; GSU Roll: 6098293.
____


I next looked for Edith Mary Phillips’s marriage index in Manchester or anywhere else in Lancashire, but didn’t find it. But I did finally locate the index showing the couple were married in the Pancras, London Registration District for the December quarter of 1885. Another couple is also recorded in the index. The marriage of Edith Phillips and Arthur Townley can be found in Volume 1b, Page 22 of the GRO registers:


Marriages December Quarter 1885

Eliza Clarkson
Philip Mylrea
Edith Mary Phillips
Townley Arthur

Registration District: Pancras

Volume: 1b

Page: 22
____


I also found a digitized copy of Edith and Arthur’s original church marriage record at Ancestry.com’s, “London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921.” The marriage record shows they were married after banns in the parish church of St. Thomas, Agar Town, London, on 9 November 1885, by a clergyman named John Kingston. The marriage record shows that Arthur Townley was 21 years old and had been living in an address of 285 Stockport Road, Manchester. His occupation is “Tradesman.” Arthur’s father is listed as Henry Mills Townley, employed as a fringe maker.

The record also shows that at the time of marriage Edith was 21 years old and living in an address of 19 Elm Road. Her father is listed as Thomas Phillips, deceased. Thomas’s occupation was “Tailor.”

Witnesses to the marriage were Arthur C. Phillips and Frederick William Townley. Alfred was Edith’s brother while Frederick was likely Arthur’s brother.

I’ve transcribed the church marriage record below from the original at Ancestry.com:


Page 74

1885. Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the parish of St. Thomas in the County of Middlesex London Town

No. 148
When Married: November 9 1885
Name and Surname: Arthur Townley
Age: 21
Condition: Bachelor
Rank or Profession: Tradesman
Residence at the time of Marriage: 285 Stockport Road Manchseter
Father's Name and Surname: Henry Mills Townley
Rank or Profession of Father: Fringe Maker

Name and Surname: Edith Mary Phillips
Age: 23
Condition: Spinster
Rank or Profession: -
Residence at the time of Marriage: 19 Elm Road
Father's Name and Surname: Thomas Phillips (deceased)
Rank or Profession of Father: Tailor

Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns by me,
John Kingston

This Marriage was solemnized between us, {Arthur Townley, Edith Mary Phillips

in the Presence of us {Alfred C Phillips, Frederick William Townley

Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Thomas, Agar Town, Register of marriages, P90/TMS, Item 010.
____


For more information and a map of Agar Town in Pancras, London, go to the Wikipedia article at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar_Town

For information about the St. Thomas Church of England, Agar Town, go to the homepages website link at: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/StPancras/churches.ht...

You’ll have to scroll down to the bottom of the page before you come to the entry for the St. Thomas Church, which you will find, has been demolished. The church was located on Wrotham Road.

The marriage record for Arthur Townley and Edith Phillips shows that Edith’s father Thomas was deceased by the time of their marriage in November 1885. This means that Thomas had died sometime after he had been enumerated in the 1881 census when he and his family were living in Pancras, London. I looked for the death index of a Thomas Phillips recorded in the Pancras Registration District for the years 1881 to 1885, but did not find an index for him.

By the 1901 census 37 year old Arthur Townley and his 39 year old wife Edith M Townley and four of their children were residing in an address of 147 Alexandra Road, Moss Side, Chorlton, Manchester. Arthur is shown to be an ironmonger and an employer. His birthplace is Manchester. Edith’s birthplace is only listed as Hereford.

Their four children in the household were born in Manchester. They are 14 year old Lillie; 12 year old Alice; 7 year old Winifred; and 3 year old Arthur. Also in the household is a servant, 23 year old Teresa G. Rowlinson, born Liverpool.

Edith’s mother Elizabeth Phillips is not in the household with the family, nor did I find her elsewhere in the 1901 census.


1901 England Census

Civil Parish: Moss Side
Ecclesiastical parish: Whalley Range St Edmund
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Address: 147 Alexandra Rd

Registration District: Chorlton
Sub-registration District: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 69

Household Schedule Number: 30
Piece: 3709
Folio: 141
Page Number: 6

Name, Relation, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Employer/Worker/or Own account, If Working at Home, Where Born

Arthur Townley, Head, Married, Male, 37, Ironmonger, Employer, At Home, Manchester Lancs
Edith M Townley, Wife, Married, Female, 39, Hereford
Lillie Townley, Daughter, Single, Female, 14, Manchester Lancs
Alice Townley, Daughter, Single, Female, 12, Manchester Lancs
Winifred Townley, Daughter, Single, Female, 7, Manchester Lancs
Arthur P Townley, Son, Single, Male, 3, Manchester Lancs
Teresa G Rawlinson, Serv. Single, Female, 23, Domestic Servant, Liverpool Lancs

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3709; Folio: 141; Page: 6.
____


I then found a GRO death index for an Elizabeth Matilda Phillips. This may refer to Edith Mary Townley’s mother. The index shows that Elizabeth’s death was recorded in the Stockport Registration District for the June quarter of 1891. Her death record can be found in Volume 8a, Page 36 of the GRO registers”


Death June Quarter 1891

Elizabeth Matilda Phillips

Age at death: 70

Registration District: Stockport

Volume: 8a

Page: 36
____


If you order Elizabeth’s death record from the GRO, see if her either her daughter Edith Townley or Arthur Townley is listed as the informant to the death.

The Stockport Registration District mainly covered towns and parishes in Cheshire, but also Heaton Norris and Reddish in Lancashire. To see the names of the towns go to the GenUKI website link at:
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/stockport.html

The 1911 census shows the Townley family still living in 147 Alexandra Road, Manchester. Arthur Townley is shown to be 47 years old and a retail ironmongerer at home. He was born in Manchester. His 49 year old wife Edith Mary was born in Kington. The census shows that Arthur and Edith had been married for 25 years and in that time had 4 children, with all 4 children still alive and in the household with them. These children include 24 year old Lillie, and 22 year old Alice, working as an assistant ironmongerers; 17 year old Winifred, attending school; and 13 year old Arthur, also attending school. Also in the household is Arthur Townley’s sister, 34 year old Mary Charlotte Townley, working as a shop assistant in the toy business. Like her brother, she was born in Manchester:


1911 England Census

Civil Parish: South Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Address: 147 Alexandra Rd Manchester

Registration District: Chorlton
Registration District Number: 464

Sub-registration District: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 50
Piece: 23915

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Age Last Birthday, Sex, Marital Status, Number Years Married, Number Children Born Alive, Children Still Living, Children Who Have Died, Occupation, Industry or Service, Employer, Worker, or Own Account, Where Born

Arthur Townley, Head, 47, Male, Married, Iron Monger (Retail), Employer, At Home, Manchester Lancs
Edith Mary Townley, Wife, 49, Female, Married 25 years, 4 Children born alive, 4 children still living, Kington Herefordshire
Lillie Townley, Daughter, 24, Female, Single, Shop Assistant, Ironmongering, Worker, Manchester Lancs
Alice Townley, Daughter, 22, Female, Single, Shop Assistant, Ironmongering, Worker, Manchester Lancs
Winifred Townley, Daughter, 17, Female, Single, School Girl, Manchester Lancs
Arthur Phillips Townley, Son, 13, Male, Single, School Boy, Manchester Lancs
Mary Cherlotte Townley, Sister, 34, Female, Single, Shop Assistant, Toy Business, Worker, Shop Assistant, Manchester Lancs

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 23915.
____


WILLIAM PHILLIPS

Of all the children of Thomas and Elizabeth Phillips, the only one I could find who became a tailor like his father, was William, according to the 1871 census.

I located a William Phillips in the 1881 census in an address of 44 Churton Street, St George Hanover Square, London. The census shows he was a 29 year old tailor employing 1 man and 1 girl. His place of birth is listed as Kington, Hereford. The census also notes that William was unmarried and that his middle name was Ball:


1881 England Census

Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 44 Churton St

Registration District: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration District: Belgrave
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Piece: 102
Folio: 102
Page Number: 21

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Where Born

William Ball Phillips, Head, Unmarried, Male, 29, Tailor Master, Employing 1 Man & 1 Girl, Hereford Kington

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 102; Folio: 102; Page: 21; GSU roll: 1341023.
____


Knowing that William’s middle name was Ball I went back to the GRO birth indexes to see if I could find a William Ball Philips whose birth was recorded in the Presteign Registration District circa 1852. I found the index showing that the birth of William Ball Phillips was recorded in the Presteign Registration District for the March quarter of 1852. His birth record can be found in Volume 11b, Page 151 of the GRO registers:


Birth March Quarter 1852

William Ball Phillips

Registration District: Presteigne

Volume: 11b

Page: 151
____


You will have to order the birth certificate for William Ball Phillips to confirm that his parents were Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Watkins.

The next search involved looking for William Phillips in the 1891 census. I found William B. Phillips enumerated as a lodger in 29 Howland Street, St. Pancras. Living at 27 Howland is the head of the household named William Perkins. William Perkins may have leased the flat at 27 Howland to William. What’s interesting about this census is that it shows that 35 year old William Perkins is a professor of boxing, and a widower with two children.

William B. Phillips is shown to be a 39 year old tailor born in Kington, “Hertfordshire,” rather than Herefordshire. I couldn’t make out William’s town of birth in a copy of the original census at Ancestry.com, but had to rely on the ancestry.com index to learn his town of birth was Kington. Whoever transcribed the census may have had the census page in front of them, and thus was able to read it with more ease. Even though the census shows that William B. Phillips is married, his wife is not in the household with him:


1891 England Census

Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 27 & 29 Howland St.

Registration District: Pancras
Sub-registration District: Tottenham Court
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 120
Folio: 136
Page Number: 59

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Empolyer/Employed/ Neither Employer nor Employed, Where Born

27 Howland St

William Perkins, Head, Widower, Male, 35, Professor of Boxing, Neither Employer nor Employed, Devon Plymouth
Willie Perkins Son, Single, Male, 6, Scholar, Marylebone
Mary Ann Perkins, Daughter, Single, Female, 10, Scholar, Lancashire

29 Howland St

William B Phillip, Lodger, Married, Male, 39, Tailor, Hertfordshire Kington

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 120; Folio: 136; Page: 59; GSU Roll: 6095230.
____


The 1891 census shows that William B. Phillips is married, and so I next looked for his civil marriage index at the FreeBMD website and found it. Actually, there are two marriage indexes for him. The reason for this is that the person who transcribed the indexes probably couldn’t determine the actual page number where his marriage record can be found. Both indexes show the marriage was recorded in the Pancras Registration District for the June quarter of 1883.

The first index below lists four people whose marriages can be found recorded in the June quarter of 1883 and which can be found in Volume 1b, Page 277 of the GRO registers. The people in the index are Matthew Cooper, Frances Louise Delaney, William Ball Phillips, and Eleanor Grace Willans. There’s no way of knowing from the index if William Ball Phillips married Frances Louise Delaney or Eleanor Grace Willans:


Marriages June Quarter 1883

Matthew Cooper
Frances Louise Delaney
William Ball Phillips
Eleanor Grace Willans

Registration District: Pancras

Volume: 1b

Page: 277
____


The second index only lists William Ball Phillips, and records his birth in Volume 1b, Page 977 of the GRO registers:


Marriage June Quarter 1883

William Ball Phillips

Registration District: Pancras

Volume: 1b

Page: 977
____


If I were to order William’s marriage record from the GRO, I would probably choose the first index, showing the marriage was recorded in Volume 1b, Page 277 of the GRO registers.

I didn’t find out who William married, nor did I locate William in the 1901 or 1911 census returns. I also didn’t find a death record for William Ball Phillips. It’s possible I missed locating him in the 1901 and 1911 census enumerations.


ALFRED PHILLIPS

Next I found information about Thomas and Elizabeth Phillips’s son, Alfred. Alfred was last seen in the 1881 census living in the household of his parents in an address of 25 Tavistock Place, Pancras, London. In that census his name was recorded as Alfred C. Phillips, who was shown to be 25 in 1881 and employed as an accountant. The 1881 census also had shown that Alfred was born in Kington, Hereford.

I looked for Alfred in the 1891 and 1901 census enumerations but didn’t find him. I may have missed locating him in those enumerations or he may not have been counted in the census for each of those years. But I did find 57 year old Alfred in the 1911 census living in an address of 222 Blythe Road, West Kensington, Hammersmith, London. He is shown to be employed as an accountant with his own accounting practice. He was born in Kington, Herefordshire. The census also shows that Alfred is married to 36 year old Hannah, born in Walworth, London, and that he and Hannah were married for 14 years with 3 children born to them, but 2 of those children still living. Both children are in the household with them and both were born in Shepherds Bush, London. These children are 11 year old Leonard and 7 year old Alfred Cecil Phillips. Cecil may have also been his father Alfred’s middle name. Also in the household is Hannah’s 72 year old widowed father, Joseph Waites, a retired book maker and a pensioner, born in Hoxton, London:


1911 England Census

Civil Parish: Hammersmith
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 222 Blythe Road, West Kensington, Hammersmith

Registration District: Fulham
Registration District Number: 3
Sub-registration District: South Hammersmith

ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Piece: 254

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Age Last Birthday, Sex, Marital Status, Number Years Married, Number Children Born Alive, Children Still Living, Children Who Have Died, Occupation, Industry or Service, Employer, Worker, or Own Account, Where Born

Alfred Phillips, Head, 57, Male, Married, Accountant, In Practice, Own Account, Not working at Home, Kington Herefordshire
Hannah Phillips, Wife, 36, Female, Married 14 years, 3 children born, 2 children still living, 1 child deceased, London Walworth
Leonard Phillips, Son, 11, Male, School, London Shepherds Bush
Alfred Cecil Phillips, Son, 7, Male, School, London Shepherds Bush
Joseph Waites, Father in Law, 72, Male, Widower, Pensioner, Retired Book Maker, London Hoxton

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 254.
____


Finding Joseph Waites in the 1911 census with his daughter and son in law was a stroke of luck, as it made it less of a challenge to uncover the marriage record for Alfred Phillips and Hannah Waites at Ancestry.com’s, “London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921,” collection.

The marriage record shows that 39 year old Alfred Phillips and 23 year old Hannah Waites were married in the Christ Church, Church of England, St. Pancras, London, on March 22, 1897. The record shows that Alfred had been a bachelor and that he was employed as an accountant who had been living in an address of 162 Albany Street. His father is listed as Thomas Phillips, a tailor.

At the time of marriage Hannah was a spinster living in an address of 48 Floyd Street, Manchester. Her father is listed as Joseph William Waites, employed as a Book Maker’s Manager. The marriage ceremony was performed by a clergyman whose name appears to be F. S. Hetting. The witnesses to the marriage were Arthur Townley and Alice Watson. Arthur Townley had married Alfred’s sister, Edith Mary Phillips in 1885. One of the witnesses to that marriage was Alfred C. Phillips.

The marriage record transcription for Alfred and Hannah is below:


1897. Marriage solemnized at Christ Church in the parish of S Pancras in the County of London

No. 256
When Married: March 22 1897
Name and Surname: Alfred Phillips
Age: 39
Condition: Bachelor
Rank or Profession: Accountant
Residence at the time of Marriage: 162 Albany St.
Father's Name and Surname: Thomas Phillips
Rank or Profession of Father: Tailor

Name and Surname: Hannah Waites
Age: 23
Condition: Spinster
Rank or Profession: -
Residence at the time of Marriage: 48 Floyd St., Manchester
Father's Name and Surname: Joseph William Waites
Rank or Profession of Father: Book Makers Manager

Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns by me,
F. S. Hetting?

This Marriage was solemnized between us, {Alfred Phillips, Edith Mary Phillips

in the Presence of us {Arthur Townley, Alice Watson

Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Christ Church, Albany Street, Register of marriages, P90/CTC2, Item 015.
____


I also found the civil marriage index for Arthur Phillips and Hannah Waites at the FreeBMD website. Another couple, Amelia Elizabeth Bates and Charles Chandler are also recorded in the index.

The marriage of Alfred and Hannah was recorded in Pancras Registration District for the March quarter of 1897. Their marriage record can be found in Volume 1b, Page 124 of the GRO registers:


Marriages March Quarter 1897

Amelia Elizabeth Bates
Charles Chandler
Alfred Phillips
Hannah Waites

Registration District: Pancras

Volume: 1b

Page: 124
____


THOMAS PHILLIPS AND ELIZABETH WATKINS

There won’t be civil birth records for Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Watkins, as civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths for England and Wales didn’t commence until 1837. But there may be baptism records for them. Thomas and Elizabeth’s marriage index shows that Thomas’s father was Thomas and that Elizabeth’s father was John Watkins.

Census records indicate that Thomas was born in Evenjobb, Radnorshire, Wales, circa 1819, which is the year of birth you have for him. If you would like to see if there may be a baptism record for Thomas Phillips, contact the Powys County Archives Office website, which can be found at: http://www.powys.gov.uk/index.php?id=647&L=0

Census records shows that Elizabeth Watkins was born in Great Torrington, Devonshire. To see if there may be a baptism record for Elizabeth Watkins, who was born circa 1821, contact the Devon Family History Society webpage at: http://www.devonfhs.org.uk/

Another search option for the baptism records of Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Watkins is to look for their baptisms at the pay-as-you-go website called Find My Past, which you can access at:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/account/register-or-signin

You may also want to look for the baptism records of Thomas and Elizabeth’s children at Find My Past. The census returns show that a majority of their children were born in Kington, Herefordshire. The 1871 census however, shows their daughter Alice M. Phillips was born in Islington, London.

The other option is to have Hereford Archives look for the baptism records of the Phillips children for you.
See: https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/leisure-and-culture/local-h...

No matter if you look for the Phillips’ baptism records at Find My Past or engage the services of Hereford Archives, be aware that another Phillips family had lived in the Kington parish, Town of Old Kington, Herefordshire at the same time as your Phillips’ ancestors. The father and mother of this family were also named Thomas and Elizabeth. Their children and most of the children of your Phillips’ family were born in Kington in the decade of the 1850s.

The Thomas Phillips enumerated in Kington, Herefordshire in 1861, was a carpenter. He, his wife, and their 4 children were born in Kington, as was Elizabeth’s mother, 56 year old Ann Thomas:


1861 England Census

Civil Parish: Kington
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Address: Old Kington

Registration District: Presteigne
Sub-registration District: Kington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2

Household Schedule Number: 67
Piece: 4230
Folio: 47
Page Number: 12

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Where Born

Thomas Phillips, Head, Married, Male, 31, Carpenter, Hereford: Kington
Elizabeth Phillips, Wife, Married, Female, 30, Carpenter's Wife, Hereford: Kington
Thomas Phillips, Son, Male, 6, Scholar, Hereford: Kington
Arthur Phillips, Son, Male, 5, Scholar, Hereford: Kington
Frederick Phillips, Son, Male, 2, Scholar, Hereford: Kington
George Phillips, Son, Male, 2 Mo, Hereford: Kington
Ann Thomas, 56, Mother in Law, Widow, Female, 56, Hereford: Kington

Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 4230; Folio: 47; Page: 12; GSU roll: 850885.
____


Below is the civil marriage index for Thomas Phillips and Ann Thomas, showing their marriage was recorded in the Presteigne Registration District for the June quarter of 1853. Another couple’s marriage was also recorded in the Presteigne Registration District for the June quarter of 1853:


Marriages June Quarter 1853

Joseph Bowen
Thomas Phillips
Elizabeth Powell
Elizabeth Thomas

Registration District: Presteigne

Volume: 11b

Page: 265
____


CONCLUSION

Nick, before paying for any records from the GRO, or engaging the services of the Powys County Archives Office, the Devon Family History Society, or Find My Past, and before ordering LDS microfilms, I recommend that you access the same birth, marriage and death indexes shown in this reply, to see if you agree these records may pertain to your ancestors.

In addition, if you have to Ancestry.com, you’ll want to access the census and marriage records you see in this reply, to determine if these records pertain to your mother’s line. As mentioned earlier, I haven’t been researching the Phillips and Watkins families in the past and would not be as familiar with their genealogical backgrounds as you would be.

Best of Luck,

Dave Boylan

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 17 Nov 2013 9:58AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Phillips
Hi Dave

Firstly, thank you for your very comprehensive reply to my query!

This has provided a lot of additional information that I had not anticipated with my request and it is something that will do a lot to flesh out the other aspects of my search.

Briefly, the first line you mention is the one that is my line. This is based on existing family information re the marriage of the junior Thomas Phillips (also, his marriage was witnessed by Alfred Phillips which would lend support to the first line being correct).

It will take me a while to go through all the links you mention as I feel this will greatly add to the personalisation of my research (ie not just looking at names and statistics) and for that I am very appreciative too.

Given you make note of William entering the tailor trade as well, I will use that as another line of enquiry to see what that brings up re the family history in the business.

I am also working on Alfred Phillips now as he is one member of the family, many of us do not know much about. He ran his own practice from what it seems - my current online enquiry to a Fulham and Hammersmith forum has not been answered as yet; my off Ancestry enquiries for his sons leads me to believe they died young and there appears to be not much to be heard of for the senior Alfred.

He is very much a mystery I am looking forward to solve

Many thanks again for your help on this!!

Nick

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 17 Nov 2013 10:21PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Nick,

Many thanks for your prompt reply.

After receiving your reply I concentrated more heavily on finding more records pertaining to Alfred C. Phillips, the accountant. Earlier, I had missed locating him in the 1891 and 1901 census enumerations for London, but I finally managed to locate him in both census returns.

The 1891 census shows that 35 year old Alfred Phillips is boarding in the household of 39 year old Charlotte Fearn in an address of ( Kenyon ), Streatham, London. I don’t know if the address ( Kenyon ) refers to a block of buildings or flats in the Civil Parish of Streatham, or if it pertains to something else. In any event, the 1891 census shows that Alfred’s occupation is accountant and that he was born in “Kingston,” with no county mentioned. He is shown to be Neither Employer nor Employed, “ and so it appears he hadn’t been working when he filled in the census form.

The Ancestry.com transcription of the census is below:


1891 England Census

Civil Parish: Streatham
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Streatham
County/Island: London
Country: England

Address: ( Kenyon )

Registration District: Wandsworth
Sub-registration District: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 3

Piece: 454
Folio: 99
Page Number: 38

Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Empolyer/Employed/ Neither Employer nor Employed, Where Born

Charlotte Fearn, Head, Single, Female, 39, Living on own means, London
Julia Fearn, Sister, Single, Female, 42, Living on own means, London
Alfred Phillips, Boarder, Single, Male, 35, Accountant, Neither Employer nor Employed, Kingston
Arthur Malins, Boarder, Single, Male, 34, Clerk to?, Employed, ?
Hannah Land, Servt, Single, Female, 49, General Servant, Bristol

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 454; Folio: 99; Page: 38; GSU Roll: 6095564.
____


Below is the 1901 census transcription for Alfred Phillips. This was a little more challenging to find as his age is listed as 28 years old, when in the 1891 census he was 35. This census also shows that he is married to 26 year old Hannah who was born in Newington, London. Alfred’s birthplace is listed as Kington, Hereford. I couldn’t fully make out his occupation, though it notes that he was employed as an accountant and also in the accident insurance trade.

In the household with Alfred and Hannah is their 1 year old son Walter L. Phillips, born Hammersmith. The address of the Phillips household in the 1901 census is 21 Netherwood Road, Hammersmith:


1901 England Census

Civil Parish: Hammersmith
Ecclesiastical parish: St Simon
County/Island: London
Country: England

Address: 21 Netherwood Rd

Registration District: Fulham
Sub-registration District: South Hammersmith (including Starch Green)
ED, institution, or vessel: 31

Household Schedule Number: 18
Piece: 50
Folio: 103
Page Number: 3

Name, Relation, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Employer/Worker/or Own account, If Working at Home, Where Born

Alfred Phillips, Head, Married, Male, 28, Accountant and Agent for ? and Accident insurance, Own Account, Hereford Kington
Hannah Phillips, Wife, Married, Female, 26, London Newington
Walter L Phillips, Son, Male, 1, London Hammersmith

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 50; Folio: 103; Page: 3.
____


The 1911 census for Alfred and Hannah and their children, which was in my first reply, shows two children in the household. They are 11 year old Leonard Phillips and 7 year old Walter Cecil Phillips. I believe the Leonard Phillips actually pertains to Walter Leonard Phillips who was in the 1901 census.

I found copies of the original baptism records for Walter Leonard Philips and Alfred Cecil Phillips at Ancestry.com’s, “London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906.”

Both children were baptized in the Church of England Parish Church of St. Simon, Hammersmith. Walter was baptized on May 26, 1901. Alfred Cecil was baptized on Oct 25, 1903. At the time of the baptisms the address of the family is 21 Netherwood Road, which is the address of the family in the 1901 census.

But, the baptism record for Alfred Cecil gives additional information that I hadn’t encountered before. This record shows that father Alfred’s middle name was “Coniam.” I had thought it would have been Cecil or maybe Charles.

Transcriptions of the baptism records are below:


Page 18.

BAPTISMS solemnized in the Parish of S. Simon Hammersmith in
the County of London, in the Year One thousand
nine hundred & one

When Baptized: 1901 May 26
No.144
Child's Christian Name: Walter Leonard
Parents Name: Alfred & Hannah Phillips
Abode: 21 Netherwood Road
Quality, Trade, or Profession: Accountant
By whom the Ceremony was performed: R ?

Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Hammersmith St Simon, Register of Baptism, p80/sim, Item 002.
____


Page 30.

BAPTISMS solemnized in the Parish of S. Simon Hammersmith in the
County of London, in the Year One thousand
nine hundred & three

When Baptized: 1903 Oct 25
No.237
Child's Christian Name: Alfred Cecil
Parents Name: Alfred Coniam & Hannah Phillips
Abode: 21 Netherwood Road
Quality, Trade, or Profession: Accountant
By whom the Ceremony was performed: A. J. Chapman

Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Hammersmith St Simon, Register of Baptism, p80/sim, Item 002.
____


I also found the civil birth indexes for Walter Leonard and Alfred Cecil at the FreeBMD website. The indexes show that the births were recorded in the Fulham Registration District, Walter’s in the June quarter of 1899, and Alfred’s in the September quarter of 1903:


Births June Quarter 1899

Walter Leonard Phillips

Registration District: Fulham

Volume: 1a

Page: 243
____


Birth September Quarter 1903

Alfred Cecil Phillips

Registration District: Fulham

Volume: 1a

Page: 247
____


Portions of Hammersmith had one time been situated in the Fulham Registration District. See the following GenUKI link for confirmation: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/fulham.html

Learning from Alfred Cecil’s baptism record that his father’s middle name was Coniam, I was able to pin down more records pertaining to Alfred Coniam Phillips.

The first record comes from the 1902 London Post Office Directory found at Ancestry.com, showing an address for Alfred of 42 Gray's inn road WC. This likely refers to his business address:


1902 London Post Office Directory

Phillips Alfred Coniam, accountant, 42 Gray's inn road WC

Source Information:

Ancestry.com. U.K., City and County Directories, 1600s-1900s [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.

Original data: Various UK directories. See title page image of each directory for original source information.
____


I then located Alfred Coniam Phillips in the London, England, Electoral Registers at Ancestry.com. These electoral registers are for the years 1900, 1901, 1903, 1931, and 1932. Alfred’s address in the 1900, 1901, and 1903 Electoral Registers is “21 nether wood road,” Finsbury, Holborn Division.

Hannah Phillips, along with Alfred, is also listed in the Electoral Registers for 1931 and 1932.

In the 1931 and 1932 Electoral Registers, the “abode” of Alfred Coniam Phillips and Hannah Phillips, is listed as 30 Sterndale Road, W.14.

I’ve attached a copy of the 1932 Electoral Register for Alfred and Hannah so that you can take a look at it. They are located on Page 15.

Perhaps with this information you may be able to advance your research concerning Alfred and his family.

Knowing that Alfred’s middle name was Coniam, I looked for the GRO death index for an Alfred Coniam Phillips up to the 1950s, but didn’t find it. It may be a challenge to locate his death record being as he had very common first and last names. In addition, you would need to know where and when he died, to locate his death record.

Because I had never heard of the surname Coniam before, I wanted to see if I could find reference to it in Herefordshire, particularly in Kington. I was surprised doubly when I uncovered an LDS marriage index for a Thomas “Philips” and an Elizabeth Coniam recorded in the Kington, Herefordshire Church of England, on 25 March 1845. Thomas’s father is listed as Benjamin Phillips, while Elizabeth’s father is John Coniam.


The marriage index follows:


Elizabeth Coniam, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "

Name: Thomas Philipps
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:

Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Coniam
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:

Event Date: 25 Mar 1845
Event Place: Kington,Hereford,England

Father's Name: Benjamin Philipps Mother's Name:

Spouse's Father's Name: John Coniam Spouse's Mother's Name:

Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:

Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M13716-3 System Origin: England-ODM Reference ID:

GS Film number: 1041609 = Parish registers for Kington.
Author: Church of England. Parish Church of Kington (Herefordshire):
Baptisms, 1924-1951. Burials, 1813-1917. Marriages, 1773-1873.

Citing this Record
"England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NK8V-JYL : accessed 17 Nov 2013), Thomas Philipps and Elizabeth Coniam, 25 Mar 1845.
____


The marriage record for Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Coniam can be found in LDS microfilm number 1041609, which can be ordered from your nearest Family History Center, should you decide someday to explore this Phillips/Coniam line.

I also found the civil marriage index for Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Coniam at the FreeBMD website, showing their marriage recorded in the Presteign Registration District for the March quarter of 1845. Their marriage record can be found in Volume 26, Page 295 of the GRO registers:


Marriages March 1845

Elizabeth Coniam
Jane Francis
William Harper
Thomas Phillips

Registration District: Presteign

Volume: 26

Page: 295
____


To read an interesting article on the possible derivation of the name Coniam, go to the surname database at the following link: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Coniam

Also Nick, because most of the children of Thomas and Elizabeth Phillips were born in Kington, Herefordshire, you may want to consider looking for their individual baptism records on LDS microfilm, being aware that the children of the other Thomas and Elizabeth Phillips will also have likely been baptized in the Kington Church.

Below are several film numbers from the LDS fir the KIngton Parish CHurch, including the film number noted above in which the marriage of Thomas Philips and Elizabeth Coniam can be found:


Parish registers for Kington, 1667-1957

Authors: Church of England. Parish Church of Kington (Herefordshire) (Main Author)

Notes

Microfilm made of originals (mss. collection in 29 v.) held at the Herefordshire Record Office, Hereford, England.

Hereford Record Office call nos.: AK16/25-29.


Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1667-1729. Family History Library British Film: 1041607 Item 14

Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1729-1812. Baptisms, 1813-1924. Family History Library: British Film 1041608

Baptisms, 1924-1951. Burials, 1813-1917. Marriages, 1773-1873. Family History Library British Film 1041609

Marriages, 1873-1957. Family History Library British Film 1041610 Items 1-4

Banns, 1823-1951. Family History Library British Film 2355828 Items 8 - 12
____


The film number that covers baptisms for the Kington Church of England for the 1840s and 1850s is film number1041608. Baptisms on this film are for the years 1813 to 1924.


Best Wishes Nick, and once again, thank you for your reply.

Dave
Attachments:

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 18 Nov 2013 8:58AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Phillips
Dave,

Thank you so much again for coming back to me with these items of information.

Thank you also for clarifying the middle name for Alfred; I had it listed as "Caniam" because that was how I found it on this website. Coniam now links in with your further work on the marriage of Thomas and Elizabeth, which leads me to believe I have the wrong Thomas and Elizabeth and that I should be working on the Phillips Coniam marriage rather than investigating any links to Watkins.

FWIW, I have now located an Elizabeth Coniam in the 1841 Census, on here, as a result of this new line of enquiry. She is listed as being born in Torrington in the search criteria (though the printout copy makes it hard to read).

This would further confirm that I now have the right Thomas and Elizabeth; all else that follows appears to be unaffected by this error so I am very grateful for that!

There also appears to be an Alfred Cecil Phillips who passes away in 1975, in Torbay, that was born around the same time as the one I have in my tree.

As with before, this has certainly added a greater perspective to my researches and I am grateful for your time and contribution.

Nick

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 19 Nov 2013 12:00AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Nick, and many thanks again for writing back.

I agree that it makes better sense that Alfred’s parents were Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Coniam, rather than Thomas Phillips and Elizabeth Watkins. But, to be sure of this, you will need recorded proof, other than Alfred’s middle name. I recommend ordering Alfred’s birth cert from the GRO to see if his father's occupation is listed as a tailor and that his mother’s maiden name was Coniam, or some variant spelling of Coniam.

Kington, as you know, was located in the Civil Parish of Presteign. I found only one Alfred Phillips whose birth was recorded in the Presteign district between the years 1843 and 1861. The index, from the FreeBMD website, shows that Alfred’s birth was recorded in the Presteign Registration District for the March quarter of 1853. His birth record can be found in Volume 11b, Page 161 of the GRO registers:


Birth June Quarter 1853

Alfred Phillips

Registration District: Presteigne

Volume: 11b

Page: 161
____


If you do order Alfred's birth cert from the GRO would you kindly write back and let me know if his father’s occupation is listed as a tailor, and if his mother’s maiden name was Coniam.

Thanks again Nick for your prompt reply.

Dave

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 19 Nov 2013 10:55AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Phillips
Will do.

Thank you again for your work on this - it is very much appreciated.
From here, I have already google mapped the address you gave me for Alfred's business (it is now a hair salon) and have done some extra searching for this line of the family (it had come up as a dead end before).

According to Alfred and Hannah's marriage certificate, Alfred's father was a tailor and the names match up with the 1911 Census data so I am confident I have the right family. It appears the only citing of the name in official format is on that Baptism form - which is strange and may just be the tipping point for me to order the birth certificate :)

Many thanks again

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 21 Nov 2013 4:30AM GMT
Classification: Query
You're welcome Nick.

Dave

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 22 Nov 2013 12:55AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Phillips 1817 Constantine Watkins Joseph Tringham
Dave and Nick,

What a fantastic job you have done Dave. I really appreciate it all. I am now able (when I get the time) to extend the Phillips_Constantine tree further. You seem in a few days been able to move this on.

It took me months of odd moments to get not very far in the pre computer indexed days as you probably know. As to Thomas's father as Benjamin, I have long suspected that. The Directories show Thomas having a Tailor's business in Kington in 1844 but in 1835, the directory shows the same in Market Place as run by Benjamin Phillips. With the name and trade I was beginning to wonder whether we were looking at a Jewish ancestor with different records. There are many Jewish Tailors and a Master Tailor in Savile Row could be a good indication..

Also, yes there was a tradition in the family to use a mother's maiden name for the baby's middle name. My father was Rowland Constantine Phillips. Yes I too am a descendant. Family tradition says that one of the Thomas' was known as Thomas Tringham Phillips. I have never found any links for this. But there is also a tradition that Thomas' first wife died of TB. Nic, you will have to sort out the generation it might be.

Not only did I spend 6 months pursuing Phillips/Watkins but also Phillips/Joseph as marriages - both wrong as it now turns out. With computer indexing these can so soon be discarded. I have a copy of the Phillips/Watkins Marriage Certificate from which I was able to confirm this was wrong.

Re: Thomas Phillips (1817 - )

Posted: 30 Nov 2013 8:39PM GMT
Classification: Query
Many thanks for your kind reply John.

Dave
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