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2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 29 Apr 2012 9:13AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 29 Apr 2012 9:37AM GMT
The Relationship Calculator on FTM 2012 whilst an excellent feature it compromises the integrity of data and needs further refinement in that in order to maintain the integrity of data and information in the most meaningful and correct way it MUST default to the closest direct blood relationship not the closest generational relationship that it seems to be currently doing i.e. displaying an ancestor as Grand Uncle of 14th Cousin's wife 25 times removed but rather what degree of a Great Grandparent the ancestor is; that is the realtionship that should display anyhting else is secondary.

I have spent endless hours trying to fix this issue by examining entries and re entering data by detaching people and so on just to make the Relationship Calculator display the correct lineal relationship.

My tree extends very far back into the earliest times in some cases the 10th Century. It is inevitable when you go that far back that there will be multiple descents from siblings within the same generational family group. In some case FTM treats this correctly in that it will display the siblings each with a yellow arrow and their Great Grandparent relationship. By way of example one sibling is a 24th Great Grandparent and another is a 26th Great Grandparent – However in some cases it will display one sibling as a xx Great Grandparent and another as a xx Grand Aunt or Uncle based on their relationship to a person in a later generation. It will pick up on their direct relationship in the next generation and will display their children as correct Great Grandparents which highlights the issue for me e.g. How can you have a Grand Aunt or Uncle that displays as a parent of a Great Grandparent? It may be technically feasible but in charting a family tree it just does not make sense to display like this and those type of relationships should not be the one that the system defaults to. This is driving me mad and causing all of my data to be viewed in a questionable way. The ethos and nature of family research is to establish family lines DIRECTLY. Therefore whilst these other relationships may be interesting to some (they are not to me) and may be useful to some for other pieces of work they SHOULD NOT take precedent over a DIRECT line and the Relationship Calculator should be set to default to the closest DIRECT BLOOD RELATIONSHIP over a Grand Aunt of a 12th Great Grandfather’s wife’s sister’s brother’s nephew etc etc. The Relationship Calculator under the Tools button should allow the user to select from the list of multiple relationships that they want to display which in my case will always be the DIRECT lineage. The other relationships are secondary and not of importance to me and I suspect most serious researchers. I have sent copious emails to Ancestry.com about this and they have failed to assist me and do not seem to grasp that this is a real problem and important issue to many. I purchased FTM 2012 on their advice because similar but lesser problems were occurring in FTM 2009 so I thought the upgrade would resolve them but instead it has made the issue worse and created more problems for me. It needs to be fixed! The only way I can see to fix it so that my family line displays are correct is to detach people that actually belong in the same family grouping but I’d rather have them appear alone than incorrectly displayed as a lesser realtionship. Direct line should override any and ALL other relationships that can be viewed in the Realtiosnhip Calculator if there is interest or need by the user to examine such information.

Sorry to ramble.

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 9 May 2012 9:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
You are not rambling, I quite agree with you. Although I do not have FTM2012, the same problem exists in the Ancestry on-line trees. There are several threads, including one I started, pointing out this flaw. The more people that draw attention to this the quicker it will be corrected.

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 9 May 2012 10:04PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 9 May 2012 10:05PM GMT
I think you've got it wrong that the Relationship Calculator compromises the integrity of data. It only displays data and does not alter them. No data are in jeopardy.

I'm not sure you've been clear enough for me to understand which "Relationship Calculator" in 2012 you're talking about. When I see someone write this I think of the window that pops up when you select "Relationship Calculator..." from the tools menu. I gather from what you're saying, however, that you're talking about (1) the relationship that is used for the "Relationship Chart" in the "Publish" workspace or (2) the information pane of the "People" workspace that displays a selected person's relationship to the home person in the tree. I think you're talking about the former.

The Relationship Calculator under the tools menu provides a partially functional solution to the problem you've described. It is supposed to detect all possible relationships between two people, but it doesn't always work (especially for distant relationships). When it does detect a relationship, however, it gives you the option to generate a chart similar to the "Relationship Chart" from the "Publish" workspace, only you can't modify any of its options (like displaying thumbnails). For this reason, most of us temporarily detach and reattach people as necessary to force it to find the desired relationship for the chart. It's a real PITA.

I recommend that you contact support@ancestry.com to report this problem. The more they hear from us, the better chance of getting a fix.

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 10 May 2012 1:25PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 10 May 2012 1:47PM GMT
Marco
Thanks for your reply - you are correct in the Relationship Calculator does not ‘directly’ compromise the integrity of data in that it displays all relationships which technically may be a good aspect and perhaps is
interesting and useful in some cases but if you have a large tree going back 20-30 generations with say 10,000 entries it does compromise that data as the user will find that the displayed relationship is not always the closest or direct one which is the one that most genealogists and family tree experts want to see. I am not interested in the remote relationships but rather only those that I DIRECTLY descend from and because the Relationship Calculator does not appear to apply a consistent rationale to how it displays the relationship I am missing out on many direct ancestors - what it does is skip a generation - for instance if you like me are descended from siblings in the same family group it displays some of the Great Grandparents correctly in one case I am descended from 3 siblings in the one family and the Relationship Calculator displays this correctly so all subsequent relationships from those 3 displays correctly in the right generations i.e. the 27th Great Grandfather/mother is the parent of the 26th Great Grandfather/mother BUT in some cases where I am descended from 2 individuals in the same grouping it displays 1 sibling as a Great Grandparent and the other as a Grand Aunt/Uncle but then corrects this in the next generation by displaying the child of this Grand Aunt/Uncle as a Great Grandparent . The result is the Grand Aunt/Uncle does not show in the direct lien chart which does compromise the integrity of the information one provides. Less experienced users may never pick up on this glitch which will ultimately reflect their direct descent incorrectly. Like you I do attach and detach regularly to ensure that the info I produce is correct and yes it is a PITA BIG TIME. It could be resolved if Ancestry would allow the user to override the unwanted relationship in favour of the most direct - a Grand Aunt/Uncle is not a direct ancestor although relationship wise they can be a variety of less direct relationships including Aunt/Uncle, cousin, in-law etc depending on the subsequent generations and how one descends form them. The user should not have to resort to attaching and detaching to get the most correct DIRECT descent it does devalue the information and leaves one's data open to criticism as being inaccurate or wrong. As you have probably experienced there are those that do not believe that one can trace direct liens back to 25 and 30 generations ( I have them in my own family) and beyond accurately and this type of glitch only feeds their arguments. I am currently involved in a very large family event where relations are coming from literally all over the world, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, South Africa, Tahiti and many states in the USA - preparing the data and charts etc for this event has been a nightmare because of this glitch and my desire to ensure that each branch has the correct lineage. I have notified Ancestry support of this and they claim to be working on it.

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 10 May 2012 2:47PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 10 May 2012 6:47PM GMT
I'm glad that you contacted support. I have myself, and I know others who have brought up similar issues here in the forum claim they have as well.

One thing you didn't respond to is exactly which of the three "Relationship Calculators" you're on about. Have you tried using the Relationship Calculator under the tools menu? If it detects the relationship you want, then you can create a chart from there--you just can't edit any of the chart's options.

The discussion of compromised data is at this point academic. The shortcomings of the parts of FTM that calculate relationships, thankfully, do not alter the data in your tree, but they do make it difficult to find and report multiple relationships. Most of us purchase genealogy programs because they're supposed to make that sort of thing easier.

As the kids today say, EPIC FAIL.

Edit: spelling

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 10 May 2012 3:14PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 16 Oct 2012 11:34PM GMT
Thanks

yes I have tried the Relationship Calculator under tools and it lists many combinations for instance 27th Grand Aunt, 26th Great Grand Mother, 4th Great Grandmother of 19th Great Grandfather's sister's brother's wife and other such nonsense - it should allow the user to click on the desired realtionship to display in the right corner page box which I would bet would be 99.9% the direct line e.g Great Grandparent over anything else. I have had numerous e-mail ping-pong with Ancestry support and they advised me to purchase the 2012 edition to coreect a problem I was having with a maternal first cousin who was appearing as a 28th cousin in-law 4 x removed because of a mutual realtionship between her husband and my paternal line back in the 1500s - so I purchased the 2012 edition and it corrected that problem but has thrown up many others in these distant ancestor groupings that incidently and ironically displayed correctly in the 2009 version - go figure!

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 13 May 2012 4:14AM GMT
Classification: Query
As I have stated on a post somewhere-I have the same problem- but the cause is very simple----just because two cousins 3x removed married it has effectively "merged" two entire family lines and confused the relationship calculator.
I am no longer straight line related to the generation previous to these two people. The calculator goes to the two marrieds, who were added most recently, and goes up and back down the trees to get to my older ancestor.

Were these programmers A students, I ask?

So I guess I have to un-marry these two people and just make a note that due to ancestry programming, their marriage cannot be shown. Good advertizing as I share my tree with relatives!
I will write to support@ancestry.com.

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 13 May 2012 4:14AM GMT
Classification: Query
As I have stated on a post somewhere-I have the same problem- but the cause is very simple----just because two cousins 3x removed married it has effectively "merged" two entire family lines and confused the relationship calculator.
I am no longer straight line related to the generation previous to these two people. The calculator goes to the two marrieds, who were added most recently, and goes up and back down the trees to get to my older ancestor.

Were these programmers A students, I ask?

So I guess I have to un-marry these two people and just make a note that due to ancestry programming, their marriage cannot be shown. Good advertizing as I share my tree with relatives!
I will write to support@ancestry.com.

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 4 Jul 2012 12:17AM GMT
Classification: Query
I've had the same problem with the Relationship Calculator. I've contacted ancestry about it and am always give the response about disconnecting them from their family and then reconnecting them again. That doesn't work. My ancestry is primarily norwegian and there are several inter-family marriages that the relationship calculator completely messes up. It's for this reason alone I refuse to part with my family tree maker software that was issued prior to ancestry purchasing it. I can still get a trustworthy relationship from there and then must manually add a note to my tree.

Re: 2012 Relationship Calculator Should Display DIRECT relationships as a default

Posted: 4 Jul 2012 9:52AM GMT
Classification: Query
Ancestry support staff have told me via eamil that they are workign on this and that it may be fixed through a 'patch' or included in a new version which means in order to have the correct direct relationship display to avoid having to detach families which is not in accordance with what teh product claims it does e.g. we should not have to detatch people to get a correct DIRECT realtionship which is what genealogy is all about when the product is supposed to do that for you we will have to purchase a new version when issued. Everyone with this problem should continue to contact support and not accept their fob-offs but rather keep contacting them to voice displeasure to demonstrate how important it is and how the system is letting us down.
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