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Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 16 Oct 2012 5:26PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Scanlon, Moran
I am looking for information about Ann Scanlon who married James Moran aproximately 1843-1848. They had a daughter Mary in 1848-1849 in Co. Sligo. Mary Moran emmigrated to Scotland where she was living in 1871. At that point, both her parents, Ann Scanlon and James Moran, had died. I do not know exactly when or even where they died, they were listed on her marriage certificate as deceased. James Moran was a mechanical engineer (as stated on daughter's marriage certificate). Any shread of infomation would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 6 Nov 2012 6:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Did she marry in Scotland or in Ireland.
www.familysearch.org

has good Scotland records. Perhaps her family came from there originally and when her parents died she moved to Scotland to family. Many Scots farmers went to Ireland as farmers and it was part of a government agenda to have more Protestants in Ireland than catholics. These huge emmigrations to Ireland go by the name 'plantations'. It wasn't trees.

At the time of Ann's birth in Ireland records prior to 1864 are all parish records. There are some early Protestant
marriages from 1845-1862. On an old CD set from the Latter Day Saints there are marriages from 1804-1881 for the surname Scanlon. No matches. There is a gap between 1837-1847 if Protestant and there would be no records
for Catholic births.

There are births in Sligo from 1829 for the name Ann Scanlan
Any after that would be too late for a daughter born in 1848
the average age for marriage being 20.

Annam Scanlan born 17 June 1829 Aghanagh, Sligo, Ireland
Fa: Patritii Scanlan Mo: Ceciliae Shanan

LDS Film No.989739(this is the only birth for these parents)

Aghanagh, Sligo is a Parish and townland in the Union of Boyle.

There were 13 James Moran's listed in Griffith Valuation of 1857. in Several Parish's, none in the Union of Boyle.
Poor Law Union towns would contain parishs, townlands, towns and villages within 12 miles.

Scanlan: 217 in Sligo, the following are those in the same
parish's as the Moran:

22 Scanlan Parish Achonry
0 Scanlan Parish Drumcolumb
1 Kilmacallan Parish name Michael Scanlan
3 Kilmacteige Parish, Patrick & Martin Scanlan's
0 Parish Kilmoremoy
17 Parish St. John (City/Town)

Using the Parish given in the birth of Ann:

In 1857 this is the only Scanlan in the Parish of Aghanagh.

Owen Scanlan Parish of Aghanagh, Townland Corradoo W.
Poor Law Union Boyle, tenant of William Phibbs
#6a house, outbuilding and land 18 acres 1 rood 16 perches

What are Mary's children named?

In 1846 directories:

Bartholomew Scanlan, 34 John St. Sligo, Tailor

John Scanlan, 48 High St. Sligo, cloth cap maker

Michael Scanlan, 17 Castle St. Saddler & Harness Mkr.

1870:
Thomas Scanlan - Collooney Station Master
Andrew Scanlan Ballymote, boot and shoe maker
James Moran, Ballymote, Blacksmith Riverstown
James Moran, Sligo High St. Grocer and butter merchant

I'm surprised that James didn't show up as a mechanical engineer but he could of worked for a company with employees
and they would not be listed. My father was a mechanical
engineer and built roads.

www.familysearch.org

James Morohan age 66 died 1870 Boyle, year of birth estimated by age given at death (b.1804)

Nancy Moran age 35 died 1864 Ballina, year of birth
estimated by age given at death (1829)

You might find James Moran in the Tithe Applotments in Sligo
dated 1820-1839. These are at the National Archives in
Dublin or on Ancestry.com

Both the Tithe & Griffith Valuation are now used as census
substitutes.

You might also find Tithes on one of the following:

www.censusfinder.com United Kingdom+Ireland+Sligo
www.igp-web.com + Sligo

Annette Code

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 7 Nov 2012 10:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for so much information. This was truely a random act of genealogy research. I am working through it all and see several things that I have not uncovered. In answer to your questions:
Did Ann Scanlon marry in Scotland or in Ireland? I haven’t been able to find a Marriage Cert on Scotland’s People, so I assume they were married in Ireland. I found the name Ann Scanlon (also spelled Scanling and Scanllin) on her daughter’s marriage certificate and death certificate on Scotland’s People. I couldn’t find the death certs of Ann Scanlon or her husband, James Moren, on Scotland’s People. My working assumption is that they never left Ireland. The marriage certificate is difficult to read. My best understanding is as follows:
Statutory Marriages, Scotland's People, July 31, 1871.
On the thirty first day of July at Eisheraere (?) Arbroath, after Banns, according to the Forms of the Established Church of Scotland.
Signed George Riddoch, age 22, boot closer, bachelor; usual residence 11 Craigia (?) St, Dundee. Father::James Riddoch, maltsman (Deceased). Mother Margaret Riddoch M.S. Martin
(Signed by mark) Mary Moren, age 24, Flax Mill worker, spinster, usual residence: 24 Lady Bridge Street, Arbroath; father: James Moren, mechanical Engineer, (Deceased). Mother Ann Moren MS. Scandling (?) deceased.
WF Irvine, Minister of Arbroath
Alexander Nicol, witness
Anges Riddoch, witness. (sister of groom)

According to a list I found, William Forbes Irvine was the Parish Minister of Old Kirk in Arbroath from 1844-1882. So Mary Moren married as a Protestant. Her mother may have been Protestant, but, then again, maybe not.

I settled on the name Scanlon as that was a popular name in Ireland at the time, but it might be one of the other spellings, or another spelling entirely.

The 1881 Scotland census lists Mary Moren’s birthplace as Sligo, Ireland about 1849. The 1891 and 1901 census concur with birth around 1849, while the 1871 census says birth around 1846, her marriage certificate indicates a birth around 1847 and her death certificate indicates a birth during 1851 (died Jan 1905 aged 53 years).

I was unable to find Mary Moren in the 1861 or 1851 Scotland Census. I was unable to find the Moren family with Mary, Ann and James in Irish census either.
Both Mary Moren’s death and marriage certificate concur that her parents were James Moren/Moran (listed as both Mechanical Engineer and Laborer) and Ann Scanlinn/Scandling. Both were deceased in 1871 at the time of her marriage.

I did find a Griffith’s valuation where a Scanlon and a James Moren are on the same page. This is for the Parish of Achonry, Levyn, Sligo in Muckelty. Both James Moran and Thomas Scanlan are shown as occupying land owned by Henry Irwin. This is just one of many listings for James Moran in 1858 in Sligo.

What are Mary's children named? Mary’s children were named James (Illegimate son born 1871, has her father's name), Helen (husband’s grandmother’s name), Christina, Elizabeth and Margaret (husband’s mother’s name). So perhaps, I'm looking for family members named Christina or Elizabeth????

Again, thanks for your information and expertise.








Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 8 Nov 2012 2:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
There are two marriages in Ireland about the right time:

James Moran m. Elizabeth Scott, Miscellaneous Co. Ireland
20 Oct 1849 Fa: William Moran Fa: Christopher Scott
FHL Film #101305

James Moran age 19 marr. Elizabeth Hening age 19 Newry,Down
Ireland
Fa: John Moran Fa: George Hening
#101319

There are three Moran, 2xJacobum 1844, 1845. Latin spellings
Jacobus 1846, all Roscommon. I tried all the spellings for Scanlon.
Church of Ireland 1845-1862 marriages

Mary's parents could of been married -1843 and it would not show except possibly in Roscommon. If Mary was the oldest!
they could of married up to 10 years before!

Records Sligo and Roscommon could be in one or the other if they are in border parish's.

There are Scots births for George Roddick's from 1837-1854 Parents:
John & Nancy Skelton, Annan Dumfries;
James Roddick & Agnes Hiddleston Hoddam, Dumfries.

I don't find a Helen or a Christina and the only Elizabeth
is called Betsy born 19 Sept 1846 that has a father George Roddick has a mother Jane Armstrong, Middlebie, Dumfries, Scotland.
Perhaps the LDS only copies certain parish's as Dumfries
seem to be the largest segment, that would make sense
not finding anything.

I also looked at their records on line. There are no births records by the LDS, the only records were people born in Scotland but living in the UK 1891.

Amelia C. Roddick age 17 born Dumfries, Scotland 1891 Census
living in 1891 in Blackburn, Iswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Census

Nancy C. Roddick, married age 48 so that would not of been
her maiden name.
************************************************************

I have the extract from the UK 1871 which lists only those who were born in Ireland. You would be amazed that 102 people called Ann Moran born in Ireland immigrated to the UK, so on a whim wondering why the above Amelia C.Roddick would moved to Blackburn. 1871 UK Census - checked Lancashire brought down numbers to 58 and then Blackburn to 5 Ann Moran's.

Ann Moran 60 born Ireland, boarder living #3 Back of George Street West (can't read occupation although something is written there)

Annie Moran 20 born Ireland, boarder living on same street but #7

#6 same street has Francis Moran bro-in-law 30 born Ireland
wife Mary sister-in-law 28 born Ireland (can't read head of household)

Ann Moran 50 (right age) INMATE, born Ireland, Servant, Union Workhouse Haslingden Rd. Blackburn Lancashire

Annette

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 8 Nov 2012 2:02PM GMT
Classification: Query
Have you found a baptism record or birth record for Mary Moran in Co Sligo?

That would be my first port of call and having found it you would then know the parish of her birth and then search backwards for her parents marriage.

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 8 Nov 2012 3:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
You have some amazing resources at your fingertips. I have found George Riddoch, his parents and his grandparents in Scotland. They were definately not from Ireland in Mary's generation.

I suspect that Mary Moren/Moran left Ireland either for work or because she was pregnant. Her first appearance that I've found is her living in Arborath, Scotland in the 1871 census with a 6 month old son. I found the son's birth cert and it says he was illigemate, no father named. She was listed as working in the mill, a very low paying hard job. Strangely enough, her future husband is listed as a boarder in her house , so perhaps he was actually the boy's father. His family was still living in town, so I would imagine he would have still had a place with them if he wished. The son, James Moren, is not present is any future census with the family. I couldn't find his death cert. All speculation.

While hard to read on the certs and spelled differently, I really think that Mary's mother's last name is something like Scandling, Scanlon, Scanlinn or however you would spell that name if you could barely read or write or spell.

I truely appreciate your efforts. This may be one that is never figured out.

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 8 Nov 2012 7:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for your suggestion. I have not been able to find Mary Moran/Moren's baptismal cert. She was married in 1871 in the Church of Scotland in Arborath. This may indicates she was Protestant. Scottish census records indicate she was born 1847-1851, depending on which one is to be believed. LDS has some Irish births/baptisms online, none that match. They don’t have any films to order for this area. No luck on Findmypast or Ancestory. No matching family trees or ancestry files to give me any direction or clues. I’ve tried all the usual things, now I’m just hoping to connect with someone that may know of this family.

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 9 Nov 2012 11:06AM GMT
Classification: Query
www.rootsireland.ie has birth and baptism records but they do charge a fee. They are free to view in Dublin but I take it you don't live here in Ireland.

I would start searching in the parish where you noticed the Morans and Scanlons together.

Judging by the names Moran and Scanlon, I would assume Mary was Catholic and converted to the Church of Scotland in order to marry.

The very young boy born before the marriage may have been brought back to his grandparents in Ireland.

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 9 Nov 2012 6:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for your input. I am far from Dublin - California in fact. If you do have some free time, I would love to get your help. Please let me know if you incur any expenses and I would be happy to compensate you. This is what I know:

Mary MOREN was born in Sligo, Irelend (per 1881 census) between 1846 - 1851 depending on the source of the information. Her marriage cert (July, 1871), which is hard to read, lists her father as James MOREN, mechanical engineer, deceased and her mother as Ann SCANDLING (?), deceased. Mary's age is listed as 24, which makes birth c1847.

Mary MOREN's death cert (Jan, 1905) lists her parents as James MORAN (spelling with "a"), labourer and mother as Ann SCANLLIN, her age was 53 which makes birth about 1851.

1871 census has birth in Ireland c1846, 1881 and 1901 census have birth in Ireland c1849. Only the 1881 cenus lists Sligo.

After checking a lot of sources, I used as a working assumption that Mary MOREN's mother's maiden name might be spelled Scanlon in Ireland. However, other spellings are certainly possible.

The 1858 Griffin's Valuation that shows James Moran and Thomas Scanllon on the same page lists the following:
Occupier: James MORAN
Lessor:Henry Irwin
County:Sligo
Barony:Leyny
Parish:Achonry
Townland:Muckelty
OS Page Numbers:32

Mary MOREN first appeared in Scottish census in 1871. I have not found her in Ireland or Scotland prior to that . However, there are many Mary Morens born in Ireland listed as boarders that could be her in the 1861 Scottish census. I did not find a family in Ireland with James, Ann and Mary Moren/Moran in Ireland.

Mary worked in a flax mill in 1871, a very hard and low paying job. Her parents were both listed as deceased in 1871. She married in the Church of Scotland. Her children are named James (her father's name), Helen (husband's grandmother and sister's name), Christina (name not evident in husband's family), Margaret (husband's mother's name) and Elizabeth (some usage in husband's family)

Thank you for your kindness.

Nancy, Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Ann Scanlon married James Moran

Posted: 12 Nov 2012 3:04PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Nancy,
on the irishroots website, there is one Mary 'Murren' with mothers name Scanlon born in Co Sligo in 1843.
It would cost 5euros to access the full entry and find out the parish - I think for a small fee of around 40 dollars or so and with a bit of time and luck you may find who you're looking for.
However, there are records missing and some parishes not covered - it would be useful to contact the County Sligo Genealogical Centre and ask them where are the missing records if they do in fact exist.

I may have a chance to go to the National Library to do some research of my own and if you had an idea of parish and year I would be happy to look something up for you. However, I don't know if I will have a free morning before say Christmas.

Another new source is the Tithe Applotment books which are now free online through the National Archives of Ireland website.
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