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Harvey KNOX and Kilmainham Prison

Harvey KNOX and Kilmainham Prison

Posted: 5 Nov 2012 2:19AM GMT
Classification: Query
I'm trying to find out how Harvey KNOX ended up in Kilmainham Prison, and how/when he got out. This is the information that I have:
name: Harvey Knox
also known as:
role of individual: Prisoner
event: Prison
event date: 1879
event place: Kilmainham, Dublin, Ireland
residence: Leinster Road West Rathmines
age: 23
birthplace: London
estimated birth year: 1856
prison: Kilmainham
offence: Maliciously Damage Roof Of House
victim:
victim's address:
where convicted:
item: 3
book: 1/10/16
county: Dublin
film number: 2356719
digital folder number: 004492657
image number: 00474

I know very little about the area, and only read a bit about the prison this evening. Can anyone help?

Thanks so much!
Kathleen Adamson

Re: Harvey KNOX and Kilmainham Prison

Posted: 4 Dec 2012 10:08PM GMT
Classification: Query
Your information was probably from www.familysearch.org and their copying of Irish information.

The original source was the National Archives in Dublin as they have recently added more to their genealogy information.
Previously only the 1901/1911 census was digitized, then the prison records, then the Tithe Applotments fo 1820-1839.

www.nationalarchives.ie (www.census.nationalarchives.ie &
www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie

You should contact the National Archives as ask if their records include the released dates. Rathmines in the suburbs of Dublin so this was possibly the closest prison, people went to jail in those days for little, many were sent to Australia & Canada as convicts for stealing a loaf of bread. A great cheap way to have no cost labour for building the colonies.

You might be interested in a Short history of Ireland from the BBC, Northern Ireland. By Jonathan Bardon (Gill & Macmillan 2008) ISBN978-0-7171-4649-9
You should be able to order to a library or purchase the book. I don't know if the Four Courts Press might have one if you can't find them elsewhere.

How long he would of served for damaging a roof I have no idea but it would be longer than we now would think necessary. There are 14 Knox's in Dublin and outskirts, you would need the postal code to find Rathmines as I don't know that, I'm sure you can google that. Only Dublin proper has postal codes. There are Dublin 5's, 7's and 8.

Harvey is not in the 1901 Census for Dublin but there is a
Harvey Knox-Brown in Wexford age 30. He was a visitor at that house but there are no other occupants listed. Your Harvey would be about 54 by then.

InIllinois, did he emigrate to the US? have you found him in US passenger records or census records?

www.familysearch.org

Although the name could be fairly common there is a Harvey
Knox born in Surry, England 1841 served from 1835-1857.
Even if this isn't him being in the military in the UK
could be being stationed anywhere including Ireland.

Ireland was full of people including the irish who served in the British Army. Dublin is a port as well.

Annette Code


Re: Harvey KNOX and Kilmainham Prison

Posted: 5 Dec 2012 12:50AM GMT
Classification: Query
Annette,
Thanks for your info. I actually found quite a bit by taking a short subscription to the British Newspaper Archives. I sounds like it was a college boy prank that turned into a serious consequence! He was only in prison for a week...or less.

F.F. Harvey Knox immigrated to the USA in 1889. I have not yet found him on any ships passenger lists. The newspaper article said that he was a medical student. I have wondered if the incident got him kicked out of school. His occupation here in the Chicago area was that of a cab driver/chauffeur. A large step downward!

I still have not found a trace of his parents after 1861 when they were in Middlesex. John Thomas and Maria Louisa Knox's youngest child was born in Rathvilly, Co Carlow in 1864. John Thomas was a clerk in the Customs office. His father Charles was a Landing Surveyor, also in Customs. The family was from Ireland, but lived for a time in England because of employment, I assume.

Thanks again for your help!

Re: Harvey KNOX and Kilmainham Prison

Posted: 7 Dec 2012 3:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
My resource for birth and marriage records is an Irish History Foundation, not for profit and fee paying.

Carlow does not belong to the History Foundation but some
records are located on www.irishgenealogy.ie

Most immigrants even today have to take jobs to feed themselves and their families that are well below their skill levels. Here in Canada we have Drs and nurses from other countries, driving taxi's and work as cleaners.

Annette

Re: Harvey KNOX and Kilmainham Prison

Posted: 9 Feb 2013 11:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
niall.bergin@opw.ie is contact for Kilmainham Jail archives. Jail is open to visitors. They should be able to help you.

Re: Harvey KNOX and Kilmainham Prison

Posted: 12 Feb 2013 12:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi
I don't know if you already have this, but in case not, this appears to be Harvey's parent's marriage info (from irishgenealogy.ie. You can also view the original record):

Area - DUBLIN (COI) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. PETER

Marriage of JOHN THOMAS KNOX of 8 PEMBROKE ST and MARIA LOUISA DE MONTMORENCY of 4 FITZWILLIAM SQ on 3 May 1853

Husband Wife Name
JOHN THOMAS KNOX
MARIA LOUISA DE MONTMORENCY

Address
8 PEMBROKE ST
4 FITZWILLIAM SQ

Occupation ESQUIRE

Father CHARLES KNOX HARRY DE MONTMORENCY

Mother N/R N/R

Husband Age FULL
Husband Marital Status B
Wife Age FULL
Wife Marital Status S
Husband's Father's Occupation ESQUIRE
Wife's Father's Occupation ESQR
Witness 1 F H DE MONTMORENCY (WITNESS FOR HUSBAND)
Witness 3 H DE MONTMORENCY (WITNESS FOR WIFE)

And this might be the baptism info of JOHN THOMAS KNOX:

Area - DUBLIN (COI) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. GEORGE

Baptism of JOHN THOMAS KNOX of N/R on 11 June 1822

Name JOHN THOMAS KNOX
Date of Birth 28 May N/R
Address N/R
Father CHARLES KNOX
Mother ELIZA KNOX

Marriage of a sister of Harvey's?

Area - DUBLIN (COI) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. AUDOEN

Marriage of JOHN ALEXANDER DOCKERAY of 4 USHER'S ISLAND and MARIE LOUISA ELIZABETH KNOX of TUVER LEMSTER ROAD WEST RATHMINES on 31 March 1881

Husband Wife
Name JOHN ALEXANDER DOCKERAY
MARIE LOUISA ELIZABETH KNOX
Address
4 USHER'S ISLAND
TUVER LEMSTER ROAD WEST RATHMINES ** (see my note)
Occupation PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
N/R
Father ROBERT DOCKERAY
JOHN THOMAS KNOX
Mother N/R
N/R
Husband Age FULL
Husband Marital Status B
Wife Age FULL
Wife Marital Status S
Husband's Father's Occupation PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
Wife's Father's Occupation ESQUIRE
Witness 1 FRANCIS H W DE MONTMORENCY (WITNESS FOR HUSBAND)
Witness 3 BEATRICE M L DE MONTMORENCY (WITNESS FOR WIFE)

** I viewed the original info, and it looks like INVER (name of house?), Leinster Road, Rathmines.
(Leinster Road in Rathmines still exists - it's DUBLIN 6).

If this is Harvey's sister, the family may have moved back to Dublin in the 1870's/80's.

John Dockeray is on the 1901 & 1911 censusus with new wife Bessie & family.

Here's Harvey birth info:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Harvey Francis Frederick Knox
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1854
Registration district: Westminster St Margaret
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page 260

Happy hunting!
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