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MacTavish - MacCamish

MacTavish - MacCamish

Posted: 27 Jul 2002 8:13PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 31 Jan 2004 7:53PM GMT
Surnames: MacTavish, MacCamish, McCamish
John! Are you still watching this board? Do any of the participants on this board also use the Clan MacTavish site http://www.mactamhais.liquidweb.com/index.html ?
If so, does anyone know what it takes to become a "Supporting Member?" I have not been able to get anyone on that board to respond.

I'm looking for any background material on the adoption of the sept MacCamish by Clan MacTavish other than the obvious phonetics.

Re: MacTavish - MacCamish

Posted: 28 Jul 2002 5:30AM GMT
Classification: Query

Dear Doug:

Yes, I'm still on both the mailing list and get the
notices of postings here.

It's not clear to me what happened on the
"official page" for the Clan. I was just at the
Scottish Highland Games today here in
Enumuclaw Wash and the Chief was scheduled
to be here. I didn't see him so don't know if
he made it or not.

Best Regards
John A Hansen

Re: MacTavish - MacCamish

DeLories Vaughn (View posts)
Posted: 29 Jul 2002 8:53PM GMT
Classification: Query
John - didn't you stop by the McTavish tent at Enamclaw? I was there all weekend and the Chief was there all of the time. Except for a little walk now and then. He was in front of the massing of the clans as we paraded on the field on Sat. How did we miss you? The Chief was announced both Sat and Sun after the pipers and drums. Please let me know what you might like to know or how I might help.
DeLories

Re: MacTavish - MacCamish

Patricia Adams (View posts)
Posted: 29 Jul 2002 9:48PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello, Doug: :-)

We have your e-mail. As I explained earlier today, the Chief is currently away from the office. He will call you later this week.

When a Clan has been dormant as Clan MacTavish has for 200+ years, there are all types of people who feel they have the "correct" answer. I have seen your posts here, on the Gunn Board, in the e-mail - all in the last 3 days - you may get numerous answers and none of them may be correct, but rather different people's personal "opinions".

So that there is no confusion relative to the connection between MacCamish and MacTavish from our Clan's perspective, perhaps the best person to explain it is the Chief of Clan Mactavish.

On our official web site at http://www.mactavish.org there is an enormous amount of information relative to Clan MacTavish, septs, connected names, our history, the matriculation of our Chief, etc. Much of this information has been research by our Chief in the last 53 years (with help of his Clan members in recent years) and brought to light since his matriculation in 1997. There is enough to provide one with several hours of reading. The information may provide you with answer to your questions.

There is an excellent article on "septs" by Sir Crispin Agnew at http://www.mactamhais.liquidweb.com/names1.htm
Sir Crispin is a member of the Lyon Court in Edinburgh and his article gives a good explanation of the word "sept", which is very confusing to most Americans.

MacCamish is not a sept of MacTavish, but I will leave that to your discussion with the Chief. :-)

Another item for you to use in your research is Prof George Black's "Surnames of Scotland" (recommended by the National Archives of Scotland as a book for use in researching Scottish surnames). Be sure to read the Introduction to get an understanding of "variant spellings" of names and naming practices. Also, be sure to read Pg 554 – “MACOMISH, MACCOMISH – G. Mac Thomais, ‘son of Thomas’ …Variant spellings and information on M’Comash, M’Hamish, Makcomius, McKomash …”

I hope this helps.

In kinship,
Patricia Adams
Clan MacTavish Genealogist

Re: MacTavish - MacCamish

Posted: 29 Jul 2002 11:13PM GMT
Classification: Query

Dear DeLories

Yes, I sure did. You were located across from the
beautiful Clydedale mare :-). We actually stopped by
a couple of times since the Chief was listed in the
program and we had corresponded by email
a couple of times. The tent was busy but I didn't see
him there .. sorry. I would have enjoyed meeting him.

He has really done a good job a restoring the
Clan and going through the process in the
Lord Lyon court. Not many have done that
successfully and he should be encouraged
to speak out on the experience and even
write a memo on the various nuances. I was hoping
to talk to him about that experience.

We were at the massing of the bands in the
evening. It was a gorgeous event as always. It
really brings the spirit alive. Of course, Enunclaw
is a beautiful setting and so typical Scottish. Anyway,
I seen Major John Nichols as the leader of the massed bands.
Rick Murchie led the retirement of the colors.

Could the Chief have led the massing during the
opening ceremonies? We did miss that.
It was another great event and the Pacific
Northwest Highland Games Association deserves
a "well done". There were 72 Clans represented.

Best Regards
John A Hansen

BTW: My Grandson is named :
Tavish R Hansen

Re: MacTavish - MacCamish

Posted: 30 Jul 2002 12:32AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 31 Jan 2004 7:53PM GMT
Thanks for the response. I got concerned when I didn't get a response to my registration and assumed I was doing something wrong. Obviously, I cannot read most of the MacTavish material without being registered.

While you have seen a barrage over the last few days, this is not a new question. As I mentioned, our late McCamish genealogist, E.C. McAmis (the earliest written forms of our family name in North America are "McCamish" as noted in E.C.'s books) was absolutely sure that we are of Clan Gunn. However, I have had several emails from other researchers pointing me to the MacTavish site and that site lists MacCamish as a connected name or sept. I'm just trying to keep an open mind.

All we really know is that there were McCamishes in Pennsylvania (English colony of) in about 1725 and that three McCamish brothers fought in the American Revolution, having been somewhere in the colonies for a while. No one, not even E.C. for all his work, has ever found a ship list or anything else to trace us over the pond. The Australian branch of the family may have some connections. There is a record of a McCamish being excommunicated in Northern Ireland and there are some records of McCamishes living in southwestern Scotland - none of which helps us at all.

Thanks again, Doug

Re: MacTavish - MacCamish

Patricia Adams (View posts)
Posted: 30 Jul 2002 4:19PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello, Doug

Glad to be of help. I'm surprised you didn't get a response regarding your request. I sent two e-mails myself. They were not returned as undeliverable so I assumed they went through. Never know about e-mail though - lots of things can happen. :-)

On our official web site, located at www.mactavish.org - about 2/3 of the web page is public, including The Chief's Section (with a link to his own homepage), Clan MacTavish Information and Links (including Clan History, FAQs, information on the word "Sept", links to lans and sites on Dunardry soil and adjacent to, Published Resources, Ongoing Research of the Clan). Hundreds of links leading to hundreds of other links. The Ongoing Research has information that takes some time to read and study, as does the Published Resources. But - all of this is open to the public.

Enjoy. You'll hear from Dunardry soon. :-)

In kinship,
Patricia Adams
Clan MacTavish Genealogist

Re: MacTavish - MacCamish

Patricia Adams (View posts)
Posted: 30 Jul 2002 4:34PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello again, Doug:

SEPTS

The following is a link to a page which has Sir Crispin Agnew's article about the explanation of the word "sept". The word "sept" seems to be a difficult concept for many of us, especially being raised in 20th century US. :-)

http://www.mactamhais.liquidweb.com/names1.htm

When trying to determine which Clan you wish to be a part of, it is very important that you understand the word "sept" and that you know the genealogy of your "own" family.

As Sir Crispin Agnew says in his article: "The difference between clans, families and septs is the source of many questions as is the question phrased in one way or another, which asks, "to which clan do I belong". There are many definitions of clans and families as there are people, but this article will try to indicate how these matters are viewed in the Lyon Court."

I recommend that you read this article and think about it in order to get a thorough understanding of "sept". :-)

In kinship,
Patricia Adams
Clan MacTavish Genealogist
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