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HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 25 Oct 2011 3:30AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: HORJAN, DINJAR
I've traced my great-grandfather's Horjan line to the early 1800s in Hizakovec near Gornja Stubica, and I've recently found the earliest birth record of a Horjan male (Gregorius) in that area in 1777.

His father is shown as "Michael Chekolj aliter Horjan". (Aliter means "otherwise" in Latin.) I've also found Michael listed as "Horjan otherwise Chekolj". There are many other men whose names are listed as "otherwise", most often in combination with what seems to be a Hungarian name (Bochkay is another). When the records start to be written in Croatian, I've found some names listed as "Dinjar na Bockajevom".

Does anyone know why the names are written in this way?

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 25 Oct 2011 1:22PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: ČEKOLJ; HORJAN
It may be because of something called the clan "nickname" - people with same surname present a lot in one area needed a more specific identifier to keep track of bloodlines etc. Often, this "nickname" evolved and replaced the original surname, like in your case - original surname of your family is ČEKOLJ and it has been documented around Stubica for over 400 years. :)

I do not know about ""Dinjar na Bockajevom". It may be referring to some property or someone located on the estate of Bocskaj ("na" means "on"). You can look up if historically there was a similarly named Hungarian feudal ruler over there.

Family nicknames were generated from a characteristic, occupation, as well as location.

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 25 Oct 2011 7:01PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 25 Oct 2011 7:17PM GMT
aliter can be the same like in german "vulgo". so it would be in fact a "Vulgo-Name". this is the name of house or farm-house a person came from. as example still usual at country-side in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Italy.... possible also usual in Croatia...
example for Tirol, Austria: http://www.tirol.gv.at/themen/tirol-und-europa/tirol/protoko...

"Der Zusatz vulgo war im 18. und 19. Jahrhundert üblich, um beispielsweise in einem Eintrag in Kirchenbüchern jemanden genauer zu kennzeichnen."
The addition was commonly known as the 18th and 19 Century practice, for example, in an entry in church records indicate someone accurately."
"Beispiel: „Franz Schulz vulgo Drabosenig“. Die Person hieß Franz Schulz, hatte aber in den Drabosenig-Hof eingeheiratet oder diesen übernommen. Unter diesem Namen (der Drabosenig-Bauer) war er in der Gegend bekannt (Hausname)."
Example: "Franz Schulz vulgo Drabosenig". The person named Franz Schulz, had married into the Drabosenig-yard or owned it. Under this name (the Drabosenig-farmer), he was known in the area (house name).
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgo
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausname
not in official use now, but still in use at death notices - vulgo or vlg. under the name shows it:
Altbauer beim Ackerer/senior-farmer at Ackerer > http://www.aspetos.at/de/traueranzeige/josef_neumair
vlg.Kral > http://www.aspetos.at/de/traueranzeige/josef_ortner_5
vlg.Obersteidl > http://www.aspetos.at/de/traueranzeige/erwin_pirker
vlg."Schneiderlahn Martha", geb.(nee)Mariacher > http://www.aspetos.at/de/traueranzeige/martina_haider
http://www.aspetos.at/de/traueranzeige/Tirol/Lienz

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 26 Oct 2011 4:51AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks for you reply. I thought it might have something to do with whose estate the person lived on, perhaps if they were servants or serfs to that family. Do you have any idea what the name Horjan could have signified if it is a nickname?

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 26 Oct 2011 4:53AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks for your reply. Do you know for sure that "aliter" means the same as "vulgo"? It might be the case, but I wonder why sometimes the names are transposed.

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 26 Oct 2011 2:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 26 Oct 2011 3:01PM GMT
i´m not sure - it´s a guess.
aliter in translation to german: http://www.frag-caesar.de/lateinwoerterbuch/aliter-uebersetz...
aliter = anders = another
so means "different, otherwise" name, so because of this the guess, as in german language a vulgo-name is in fact ein anderer/another name who this person ALSO has. i don´t know why the names sometimes transposed....
i can you say also about Austria that often the persons who have a vulgo-name are often more known under this name in a community, but never used in official documents now. but how i said was usual in old times at churchbook-entries or so.

vulgo in latin: http://www.frag-caesar.de/lateinwoerterbuch/vulgo-uebersetzu...
vulgo = vor aller Welt/to the world, allgemein/general
so vulgo-name the name "for the world" which was "general" used for the person. it makes same sense at this theme like aliter i think. but how i said a guess.

Horjan > "hor" means choir in croatian. no idea if a connection to the words meaning. the ending ian or jan can show armenian orgin or in slavic names shows someone coming from a special place like in polish name Krakowian, a person who came from Kraków. but i know not really a place Hor.... maybe someone here knows the meaning of Horjan. this are all possibilities.

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 27 Oct 2011 4:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 27 Oct 2011 4:23AM GMT
I appreciate the info. It seems to make sense. I found out that horjan means "to hear" in Old High German.

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 27 Oct 2011 8:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 27 Oct 2011 8:17AM GMT
don´t think that the obviously slavic or armenian name Horjan has any connection to an old-high-german word. where are from the info?

>> = Horkuhl = niederdeutsch: hor-kuhl = Sumpf, Schlamm + Kuhle <<
Sumpf, Schlamm, Kot = marsh, mud, feces
and what´s about the ending -ian, jan then? there will not be a mix-up of first an old-high-german word with a slavic ending.

don´t think that the old-high-german word hor has a connection to the lastname Horjan on Balkan. if so you must find the name for first in Germany (phonebook), but it doesn´t exist there! http://www1.dastelefonbuch.de/
there exists Hormann/Hornemann = a man who lives at the marsh.

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 27 Oct 2011 7:07PM GMT
Classification: Query
yugaya gave you an excellent explanation of these Croatian nadimak (nickname) tradtions. This most often occured when a name became to common in a town or village, a family would take on another name so as to differentiate them from others with the same original name.

I can not think of any meaning for this word.... hora is choir in Croatian and mountain in Slovak (I find some HORJAN immigrants to America were Slovak)

Robert Jerin
Croatian Heritage Museum
Cleveland Ohio

Re: HORJAN from Gornja Stubica

Posted: 28 Oct 2011 4:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks, Robert. There certainly were a lot of Bockaj and Cekolj families in Stubica at that time, so the nadimak makes sense. I wonder how people would choose a nickname.
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