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Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 8 May 2013 7:47PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 8 May 2013 8:00PM GMT
I'm looking for my great grandmother Magda Cathrine Knudsen in the 1911 Danish records, but have had no luck looking in the places where we thought she might have been. Any help, whether it just be ideas as to where she might have gone, would be appreciated!

Here is what we know.......

Magda Cathrine Knudsen, b. Dec 5, 1889 in Egense Parish, Sunds, Swendborg, Denmark. She is the only child of her mother, who dies when she is 2 year old of TB.

Father: Laurits Theodor Skytte Knudsen, b. Nov 2, 1862 in Skaarup parish, Sunds, Svendborg, Denmark.

Mother: Frederikke Cathrine Kaas, b.March 29, 1864 in Thurø Parish, Sunds,Svendborg, Denmark. Died, Dec 24, 1891.

Laurits' 2nd wife/Magda's stepmother: Ane Kirstine Rasmussen, b. April 30, 1877 in Egense Parish, Sunds, Swendborg, Denmark. Marries Laurits May 7, 1897 in Egense Parish, Sunds, Swendborg, Denmark

Laurits and his 2nd wife Ane Kirstine have 4 children together:
Ebba Alice Marie b. 1898
Aage William Rasmus Skytte b. 1899
Margrethe Caroline b. 1900
Ellen Rigmor Ingeborg b. 1904

The story is that Magda and her stepmother Ane Kirstine did not get along at all. It looks like Magda was sent away in 1901 to live with friends of the family. In 1906 she is back with the family, then disappears in 1911. I will copy what my cousin told me she found/did not find, it may be easier.

"I have looked at the census for Rantzausminde/Egense in 1901, 1906 and 1911.In 1901 Magda is not with her family, she is staying with friends of the family in a place called Skårup. Maybe this shows us that there were problems in the relationship between Magda and her new mom Anne Kirstine as early as 1901.
In 1906 she is back living with her family and in 1911 she is nowhere to be found. So she definitely left home/was kicked out sometime between 1906 and 1911, age 17-22.
I so want to find where she lived and what she did next, but so far no luck."

In 1915, Magda is living in Copenhagen. Apparently in early April/Late March of 1915 she becomes pregnant (and is not married). The family story is that she had an affair with a prominent businessman in Svendborg, this pregnancy being the culmination of that affair. In May of 1915 she is "shipped off to America" supposedly by her family. Another bit of info from my cousin......

"I can tell you a little about Magdas father and stepmother. Laurits was a teacher, but more than that, I dont know the english word, like a senior teacher with management responsibilities, he also played the organ in Egense church. I imagine the church was very important to him, so when his young daughter got pregnant, he probably had to act, maybe not send her away but something."

Sooooo, not sure where exactly Magda was living when she had the affair or before that in 1911. The attachment shows where she was living in Copenhagen before she immigrated to America.

Any help or insight would be much appreciated, thank you!

Attachments:

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 8 May 2013 11:39PM GMT
Classification: Query
Are you sure the police registration attached is 'your' Magda?

It lists birthdate as 5 FEBRUARY 1889, and I can't read the birthplace listed but it's not Egense.

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 8 May 2013 11:55PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 9 May 2013 12:29AM GMT
Not reading Danish, I was unaware that aider = her birthdate? Someone on this board had originally found this police record and we do know that Magda was listed as having lived in Copenhagen as her last permanent residence before immigrating. Perhaps the 1 was mistakenly left off before the 2 so it looks like Feb. vs Dec or perhaps this is not my Magda.......

Her immigration info is below. Would she have just lived in Copenhagen for a few weeks before immigrating? Is there a way to tell how long she was there, assuming the police record is her?
Attachments:

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 9 May 2013 12:39AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 9 May 2013 1:45AM GMT
I believe the police registration is the right Magda and just a mistake in writing the birth month:

I can't read her father's address on the passenger list either, but pretty sure it's the same as on her registration.

One of the helpful Danes will probably recognize it.

Edit: I think it's Rantzausminde a place in Egense parish.

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 11 May 2013 2:28AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 May 2013 2:32AM GMT
Is it possible that Magda's name was inadvertnetly omitted from the family in the 1911 census? (a mistake by the census taker) I guess we can't know unless she is found in the census elsewhere.

The word on the Copenhagen police registry is Alder = age = birth date.

You are saying Magda was pregnant when she left Copenhagen for America? When was her child born in USA? Do you have that birth certificate? Is the father named?

She has been living independently in Copenhagen since 1914 and leaves Copenhagen 29 April 1915, traveling to her friend Mrs. L. Greer in Wilmington, North Carolina. Probably she is not being "shipped off," would be my guess. Her father and stepmother could refuse to allow her to return to their home to carry out her pregnancy, but as far as I know they could not compel her to leave Denmark.

On the passenger manifest, when asked by whom was passage paid, she answers: self

Here's that 1906 census you already have - would it help to post the 1911 census for the family as well?:

1906 Danish Census
Svendborg, Sunds, Egense
Laurits Theodor [Skytte] Knudsen born 2/11 64 Gift, Husfader Lærer [Skaarup Sogn - Svendborg Amt]
Ane Kirstine Knudsen [født Rasmussen] 10/4 76? Gift Husmoder - [Egense Sogn - Svendborg Amt]
Ebba Elisa Knudsen 28/3 98 Ugift Barn - [Egense Sogn - Svendborg Amt
Villiam Knudsen 30/4 00 ? Ugift Barn - [Egense Sogn - Svendborg Amt]
Magrete Karoline Knudsen 19/12 00? Ugift do [Barn] - [Egense Sogn - Svendborg Amt]
Rigmor Ingeborg Knudsen 14/12 05 Ugift do [Barn] - [Egense Sogn - Svendborg Amt]
Magda Katrine Knudsen 5/12 89 Ugift do [Barn] - [Egense Sogn - Svendborg Amt]


Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 12 May 2013 8:06PM GMT
Classification: Query
Magda had told her children (years later) that she had worked as a maid for a man named Larsen and that she had her first 3 children by him, also that it had all occurred "out East" referring to the East Coast of the US. We found out that this was not entirely true.....only the first child, Paul, was apparently fathered by this older man. Whether his name was really Larsen or not, we don't know. She left Denmark in May of 1915, her son Paul was born January 17 1916 in New Jersey, USA. That puts Paul's date of conception ~late April of 1915, while she was still in Denmark. I do not have Paul's birth certificate, but I am requesting a search for one from the state of New Jersey. His obituary states his birth as Jan. 17, 1915 in New Jersey.

I suppose it is possible she was omitted from the family on the census of 1911. I wonder though if she is living with this businessman as his maid in 1911 already? I'm speculating that if we find Magda living with another family in the 1911 records, that the head of the household may be the man she had the affair with and the father of her first son Paul?

I agree with you that she was not truly "shipped off" by her family and that she of course must have had a big part in the decision to emigrate to the US, being 25 years old. That is how my Danish cousin's family referred to Magda's leaving Denmark though....

I think you may be right that the family would probably not allow her living with them to carry out the pregnancy there, if this was a scandal in the town.

Thank you for your help- it was interesting to see that she paid for the passage.

Fawn

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 12 May 2013 8:23PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 13 May 2013 3:42PM GMT
More later - for now just a quick comment - I did not say the family probably would not allow Magda to live with them during her pregnancy. I certainly could not guess about that. Additional information about Magda's immigration is found on page 2 of the passenger manifest. I see what you mean about the 1911 census. Magda registered to emigrate 29 April 1915 and gave birth 17 January 1916 (about a week and a half shy of nine months later). She seems to leave Denmark before she could even know she is pregnant.

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 12 May 2013 9:46PM GMT
Classification: Query
My Danish cousin is the one looking in the Danish records for Magda, as it is a bit easier for her being Danish. Here is what she says:

"Hi Fawn.

Yes, she is not with her family in 1911, I searched the whole of Rantzausminde/Egense and she is not there. It is of course true, that there is a slight possibilty that who ever did the census all those years ago, made a mistake. But how could we ever know! I have to assume she was somewhere else and that hopefully I will find her.

Maj-Britt"

Magda moved around quite a bit after coming to the US. After having Paul in New Jersey in 1916, the one we are assuming was fathered in Denmark, she had a daughter, Elsa in 1918 in Montana, we find her in North Dakota living with a Danish man , listed as a servant, with her two children, Paul and Elsa, then in 1921, she has another boy in Minnesota, she is alone then. She then marries my great grandfather, she is actually ~2 months pregnant with the 3rd illegitimate son at the time......
So its safe to assume she probably didn't know she was pregnant when she left Denmark and that she left because she wanted to, at least somewhat, and probably as a result of the affair scandal in Svendborg.

Fawn

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 12 May 2013 10:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
I forgot to mention, that the man she is with in the 1920 census in North Dakota has been in North Dakota since 1904 and is found there still in the 1930 census, so, he was there before and after Magda came along. He maybe the father of the 3rd child, but we do not know when Magda went to Minnesota for sure. There are at least 2 different fathers then for Magda's first 3 children, perhaps 3 fathers, we are not sure.

Fawn

Re: Cannot locate someone in 1911 Danish records........+ long story.

Posted: 12 May 2013 10:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 12 May 2013 11:22PM GMT
Thanks Fawn, you are being so patient with me. My impression was that you guys had the 1911 census for Magda's PARENTS AND SIBLINGS. It seemed you were saying Magda was not with her parents in 1911, which means you found the parents, otherwise you couldn't know Magda's not with them. Could you post a transcription of the 1911 census for Magda's parents? Thanks!

Magda's father
1880
Svendborg, Sunds, Skaarup, Skaarup Mark, 22. et Hus, 141, FT-1880, A0134
Lars Henriksen 60 gift Husfader. Husejer. Møllebygger Bregninge Sogn Ærø
Martha Kirstine Henriksen. f. Nielsen 47 gift Husmoder. Hans Hustru Skaarup Sogn Svendborg Amt
Grethe Karoline Petrine Larsen 22 ugift Deres Datter tjener Forældrene Her i Sognet
**Laurits Theodor Skytte Knudsen 17 ugift Deres Søn Seminarieelev Her i Sognet <--------
Henriette Jørgine Katrine Henriksen 10 ugift Deres Datter Her i Sognet
Ane Katrine Uglebjerg f. Hansen 83 enke Husfaderens Svigermoder. som af ham forsørges Her i Sognet
Peter Olsen 22 ugift Seminarieelev Nysted Landsogn Maribo Amt
**NOTE 02.11.1862 Forældre: Karetmager Jørgen Skytte Knudsen og Hustru Martha Kirstine Uglebjerg


1890
Svendborg, Sunds, Egense, Rantzausminde, , 6, FT-1890, B0701
...enumerated with another family...
Lauritz Theodor Skytte Knudsen 27 Gift husfader lærer Skaarup
Frederikke Kirstine Kaas 25 Gift husmoder Thurø
Magda Cathrine Knudsen under aar, 5 december 89 Ugift barn Egense
Birthe Marie Hansen 16 Ugift tjenestepige " [Egense]

1901
Svendborg, Sunds, Skaarup, Skaarup By / Mark, 7a, 11, FT-1901, A0132
Rasmus Peder Andersen 20.01.1848 enke Husfader Agerbrug Skaarup Svendborg
Anders Laurits Andersen 21.04.1886 ugift Barn Skaarup Svendborg
Martha Henriksen 8.06.1832 enke Husbestyrinde Skaarup Svendborg
Magda Kathrine Knudsen 5.12.1890 ugift Logerende [lodger] Egense Svendborg <------
Jensigne Nielsen 22.03.1884 ugift Tjenestetyende Hilderslev
Hans Marius Rasmussen 16.05.1882 ugift Tjenestetyende Agerbrug Skaarup Svendborg
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