Search for content in message boards

Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 4 May 2013 2:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Iversdatter, Skjeggestadhagen, Skjæggestadhagen, Simensdtr, Brettingsbakken, Skjæggestad
I can’t find gravestones or death dates for Lise Iversdatter Skjeggestadhagen (b.18 Aug 1846), or her mother, Kari Simensdtr Brettingsbakken (b.3 Nov 1805). It’s possible that she died in quarantine? in Ontario, Canada as Kari’s spouse Iver Olsen Skjæggestadhagen (31 Aug 1811) died at sea on the way here with Lise and my great grandmother (Martine Johnsdatter Skjæggestad (1870)). I can follow them to Ontario, but then they fall off the planet, but somehow my 2nd great grandmother was sent to her (unmarried) biological father. Her obituary says that her mom died when she was five, but I can’t find her.

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 24 Sep 2013 5:58AM GMT
Classification: Query
I am having alittle trouble following this. Is Martine, born 1870, the one whose mom died when Martine was 5? Where was she sent to, whenshe went to her father?

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 24 Sep 2013 7:02AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Olsen, Skjæggestadhagen, Skjeggestadhagen, Skogstad, Skjeggestad, Gunderson
Yes, that's my understanding from the obituary. Martine's mom is Lise Iversdatter Skjeggestadhagen. Mom (Martine's granddaughter), seems to remember talk that [Martine] was sent to LaCrosse, WI to live with Carl Skogstad and his wife. And from there was brought back to her father, John G(underson) Skjeggestad, in Flandreau, SD. Lise and John were never married as far as I can tell from church records in Norway or later in USA so it's hard to determine what the actual relationship was between them. Not much evidently. (Church records show two kids with a different mother and not married) I believe John's sister raised Martine. The sister doesn't appear to have every married. I have never been able to locate death or grave for Martine's mother, Lise Iversdatter Skjeggestadhagen or her mother, Kari Simensdtr Brettingsbakken. I know that Iver Olsen Skjæggestadhagen died at sea, but I don't really know if he was actually buried at sea (assuming yes, but what happens when they do that? just nothing? no gravestone anywhere?) And after the main breadwinner died in those days (i think he was retired already though)...what happened to his wife (Kari) and why did Lise (their daughter) die so young? And where are they buried? I can't pull up any records on either death. Possibly changed names...but...how could I find that?

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 4 Oct 2013 2:45PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 4 Oct 2013 3:59PM GMT
Below, is this your Martine? Buried at Lone Rock Cemetery, Flandreau, Moody, South Dakota, as Marthine Skjeggestad Gunderson, parents noted as John G. and Ingeborg Skjeggestad? (John and Ingeborg buried same cemetery)
LINK:
http://southdakotagravestones.org/view.php?id=41642

It would likely help to clarify when and where Kari and Lise were last seen.

Are you saying you located Kari and Lise in Ontario? Or are you saying your last record of them is their arrival in Quebec? (You ask is it possible that they died in quarantine, but you also say you can "follow them to Ontario." Confusing) Does your family story about Martine suggest how old she was when she was sent to La Crosse? She was sent from somewhere in Ontario (by whom? when? where in Ontario?).

from Police Emigrant Protocol and Passenger List
Departed Christiania 26 April 1873
Arrived Quebec 04 June 1873
on the bark "Edda"
Captain A. Andersen
Iver Olsen Skjæggestad age 60, Farmer, residence Gausdal - died May 12th
Kari Simonsdatter Skjæggestad* 60 wife, residence Gausdal, destination Ontario
Lise Iversdatter Skjæggestad* 25 daughter, residence Gausdal, destination Ontario
Martine Iversdatter Skjæggestad* 2½ daughter, residence Gausdal, destination Ontario

Here's a link on Wikipedia about Grosse Isle, where immigrants arriving in Quebec were quarantined if need be:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grosse_Isle,_Quebec

This article says only 42 deaths are reported on Grosse Isle from 1870 - 1880 but doesn't tell how to access those records.

Here is the story of a woman who died at sea but was buried in Quebec:
http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=12362&a...

In general, it often helps when one allows the records to speak for themselves and tell the story. At the moment I can't quickly pull up John in South Dakota census (though I think I've spotted him on Find a Grave) and seems silly to hunt longer when you obviously have already identified him and Martine there. Since you don't know when or where you lost Kari and Lise, every part of Martine's story might be relevant.

Who is Carl Skogstad - do you know? Is his name possibly an Americanization of Skjeggestad? There's a Carl Skogstad buried in Flandreau, South Dakota. There's also a Mathea G Skogstad buried same cemetery as John G. Skjeggestad (Lone Rock Cemetery in Flandreau), and cemetery notes her as born in Gausdal. Was this John's sister, do you know? Or if not, who was she? Do you know of other siblings to either John or Lise who immigrated to Ontario or anywhere in North America (their locations would be possible locations for Kari and Lise).

If Lise and parents and daughter Martine were en route to join John, there might be a record of them at Lone Rock Church (or at any earlier location where he is found). At least so far, your story doesn't include anything that suggests the family was not going to John. If Lise and her parents all died, leaving Martine a toddler, one could guess that John might feel ill equipped to care for her on his own and send her to family or friends until he could remarry or until she was older. In other words, could the family be near John before Martine went to La Crosse?
http://southdakotagravestones.org/view.php?id=42349

Map of Canada in 1873:
http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/mapping/historical_maps/187...

Thanks in advance for your patience with all the questions.

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 4 Oct 2013 4:46PM GMT
Classification: Query
This is challenging because of the time period, between censuses, when they arrived and Lise and Kari supposedly died. Ontario started civil registration of vital records in 1869, but it was pretty spotty the first few years.
The Carl in the cemetery was born in 1870, so it could have been his father Martine went to. It looks like she was in South Dakota by 1880
In addition to falsterdens questions, would it also be possible to copy her obit here? Thanks.

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 4 Oct 2013 7:12PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 4 Oct 2013 7:43PM GMT
Yes or else the two Carls simply have the same surname. One reason could be that they or their parents came from the same farm in Gausdal. Certainly that cemetery (Lone Rock) is the resting place of many people from Gausdal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gausdal

More about John Gundersen Skjestadstuen:
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=9539&...

Not sure if the names are still confusing, as you mentioned in the other thread? But basically, in case some reader out there is interested, let's say a Norwegian person would have a first name and maybe a middle name, then would come his/her patronymic name, then would come an identifier name. Often the identifier name would be a place such as a farm. (You'll hear this referred to as the address name). The person's first three names remain constant, but the address name changes when they move. In the USA Norwegian immigrants chose a permanent family surname, per US customs. Some chose their patronymic name, some chose their place name (such as your family choosing the place name Skjeggestad). Some families were split: some children chose the place name and some a patronymic name (either their own or their father's). Once this first confusing era of choosing a name is past, then the families settle down (in the records) to a single surname.

g = gift = married
ug = ugift = unmarried
e = enke = widow
med Jord = with land?
Hmd = huusmand
Hans Kone = his wife
Deres Datter = their daughter
Hans Datter = his daughter
Tjener = servant/ hired help worker
og = and

1865 Norway census
Skjeggestadhagen, Østre Gausdal, Oppland
Iver Olsen g Hmd. med Jord born 1811 in Gausdal
Kari Simensdatter Hans Kone g born 1806 in Gausdal
Lise Iversdatter Deres Datter ug 1846 born in Gausdal
Anne Klemetsdatter e Føderaadskone born 1798 in Gausdal
RIGHT NEXT DOOR
John Gundersen ug Selveier og Gaardb. born 1830 in Gausdal
Ingeborg Gundersdatter ug Tjener born 1832 in Gausdal
Ingeborg Johnsdatter Hans Datter ug born 1858 in Gausdal

From the other thread:

Would it be fair to say that "your" Martine's obituary gave her mother's name as Elice Hagen????

This would seem to fit "Lise" "Elise" "Elice."

Since we have now found out (from the other thread) that John Gundersen Skjeggestad immigrated as a single man in 1870 then it certainly could be that Lise and daughter Martine were traveling to him - that is, nothing posted in the thread implies differently as of yet.

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 6 Oct 2013 6:46AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Gunderson, Skjeggestad
Thank you. Yes, this is my 2nd great grandmother, Marthine. We know where John (her biological father) is, but not where her biological mother (Lise) is. According to the obituary, Lise died when she was 5 years old so abt 1875. According to mom, she remembers that Marthine was sent to LaCrosse, WI to live with Skogstads (perhaps for a short time), then moved back to SD where John's sister, Ingeborg, raised her. Mom doesn't think the ones in Lone Rock are the ones that took her, but working from memory. We went through the line with the caretaker for Lone Rock (she actually knew these people) and we did not find anything there. We went through everyone there and Lise and her mother, Kari, are not there.

I don't get the impression that John was marriage material given that he appeared to have 3 children with two different women and left Norway for US. I find no evidence that she went to the same area that he lived. Only after her death when Marthine was sent to him and raised by his sister. The last that I can find any trace of them is Grosse Isle as you indicated, and Police Emigrant Protocol and Passenger List. And I agree that they don't provide a way to see those. I mean that the last record found is Quebec Grosse Isle. I find no sibs with the same mother. And the others didn't come here (USA) to my knowledge.

I never saw that record of the woman that died at sea, but that's what i suspect...something like that. But I can't prove it. I don't think this is ours...but will keep an eye on that one.

Another thought is that they changed their names, but no clue where they are.

Nice maps! Thanks!

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 6 Oct 2013 6:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Gundersen Skjeggestad
Not sure if this will work, but this is what I have.
Attachments:

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 6 Oct 2013 7:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Gunderson, Gundersen, Skjeggestad
It's a thought. Hagen would be the last part of the name and at that point they may have wanted to drop the Skjeggestad part. I started thinking that they were travelling to him, but I don't get the impression that Lise or Kari were anywhere near John (Martine's biological father) at this point. No understanding of the relationship at all. I assumed that they were bringing the baby here to her father, but I don't see much evidence. Not sure if Lisa and Kari just had their hands full after Iver died at sea, or what happened. That's what I'm looking for. Marthine ended up with her biological father (raised by his sister and all of those folks are in Lone Rock, but not Lise or Kari). I lose the trail on those two when Iver died and pick it up again in Marthine's obituary that her mom died when she was about 5 years old. I have nothing on what happened in the middle.

Re: Missing deaths, possibly died in quarantine in Ontario?

Posted: 6 Oct 2013 7:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Gundersen
See Marthine Gundersen obit. (hopefully attached)
Attachments:
per page

Find a board about a specific topic

  • Visit our other sites:

© 1997-2014 Ancestry.com | Corporate Information | New Privacy | New Terms and Conditions