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Waddell/Rymer

Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 19 Nov 2007 12:08PM GMT
Classification: Lookup
Surnames: Waddell, Rymer
Looking for information on Archibald Douglas Waddell and Elizabeth Rymer. Elizabeth was firstly married to Joseph Murray Gilchrist (1819, Old Monkland Lanarkshire) but later married Archibald after the death of her first husband (before 1836).Elizabeth was a granddaughter of John Rymer of Clitonhill and was involved in a court case about her inheritance (Nov 1836 Waddell vs Waddell). Trying to find out whether Alexander Waddell (b. abt 1840) was her son or grandson and if there were any other children from the marriage.Alexander Waddell married Margaret Russell Bonner.Hoping someone can help.Thanks!

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 2 Dec 2007 12:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
Not sure if this is your family or not.
1841 census Lambeth, Surrey
Archibald Waddell 60, born Scotland 1781
Elizabeth Waddell 30
Annette Waddell 5

Let me know if I can look up anything else.
Margaret

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 3 Dec 2007 6:13PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Waddell
Where was the "court case about her inheritance (Nov 1836 Waddell vs Waddell)" heard -- USA (which state) or Scotland?

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 4 Dec 2007 12:34AM GMT
Classification: Query
The court case was in Scotland. Elizabeth Gilchrist/Waddell's (nee Rymer) uncle owed her money due from the estate so Elizabeth borrowed money against it from two different people. When she eventually received her money from the estate the two parties were trying to recoup their money but Elizabeth was trying to argue against them because of the terms of the will.

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 1 Dec 2012 4:07PM GMT
Classification: Query
I think Archibald Douglas Waddell was born on 17 March 1799 in Airdrie. I wonder if Elizabeth Rymer was born on Tortola as her aunt Elizabeth was. Her father William had a plantation there and when she married Joseph Gilchrist in 1819, Blackwood's magazine noted that she was the only daughter of the late William.

I can't find any note of the marriage yet, nor any sign of the family, although Elizabeth was dead by 1864 when her son James Gilchrist (my g4 grandfather) died. Alexander Waddell was a witness on James death certificate and noted as his half brother.

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 3 Dec 2012 11:57AM GMT
Classification: Query
Great to hear from another Waddell/Rymer/Gilchrist family member. The Waddells were actually my partner's ancestors- his great grandmother, Agnes Topping Waddell (who married a McConnell) came to Australia in 1924 with some of her chidren. I have talked to my father-in-law and his sister who said that Agnes said that her mother, Margaret Bonner, had always been looked down upon by her husband, Alexander Waddell's family. As he had been a coal miner we wondered why until I came across the Rymer Waddell connection. I didn't know that Elizabeth and her husband Joseph Gilchrist had a son either.
I have presumed that Elizabeth was born in Tortola (or somewhere in the British Virgin Islands) since there seems to be no birth record in Scotland.
Alexander Waddell died on November 18, 1916 aged 75 years while living at 23 Springhill Rd, Stane, Cambusnethan. He was listed as a retired boiler fireman. The witness was James Waddell (actually his step-son that took the name Waddell).His father is listed as Archibald Douglas Waddell (deceased) Writer and Mother Elizabeth Rimmer (Rymer)(deceased). I have Archibald Douglas Waddell being born or baptised on 17 Feb 1799 in New Monkland. His father was Alexander Waddell and his mother was Mary Steel. Archibald Douglas Waddell and Elizabeth Rymer had three children that I know of - Alexander Waddell, Mary Steel Waddell and Elizabeth Waddell.
Mary Steel Waddell emigrated to Victoria, Australia and one of her descendants and I have been trying to find out more information on the Waddells and Rymers. It seems that the Rymers originally enjoyed vast wealth and lived on the Cliftonhill estate in Scotland. The Rymers (and their property name) we think originally came from the "Clifton" area of Bristol in England which was an upmarket and affluent area inhabited by the very wealthy who had interests in the slavery and tobacco trade. There are Rymers living there but I haven't been able to identify who was directly related to John Rymer Snr. I would be grateful for any information you may have gleaned and hope that what I have is correct or helpful to you in some way.
Regards,
Wedgelee

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 3 Dec 2012 12:19PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi again - just had a quick look at my notes again and have found the following:
Elizabeth Rymer's father was William Rymer and her mother appears to be Martha Faulds born Aug 1782, Old Monkland. She died in 1804 in Spanish Town, Tortola. Martha's father was Andrew Faulds and her mother was Martha Down. Several members of the Faulds and Rymer families intermarried and Andrew Faulds and John Rymer Snr had business interests together (found this through some court case records).

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 3 Dec 2012 6:55PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks! This is useful information. I'd be happy to give you access to my tree on Ancestry where you can see the information I have more easily. My email is nftaylorscotland @gmail.com.

I traced Elizabeth Rymer through the d/c of her son James Gilchrist who died in 1864. His daughter Elizabeth Rymer Gilchrist died in Haddington in 1910. What you say about the Waddells looking down on Margaret Bonnar is interesting. James Gilchrist was an iron moulder and died in what I assume was an industrial accident. If his mother Elizabeth was the daughter of landed gentry and his father Joseph a surgeon it does seem odd that their son became an iron moulder. She then marries Archibald (a writer?) and their son becomes a coal miner. It seems that the wealth was lost!

I saw from the accounts of the court case that the Rymers owned Cliftonhill and had plantations in the BVI. I believe that a lot of families lost considerably after the end of the slave trade in the early 19th cent and teh Rymers may have been one of them.

I'm not sure about the Bristol connection. I know that's what Coatbridge Museum thinks but....

I have a copy of John Rymer jnr's will from Scotlands People and this mentions his sister Elizabeth who married a John Faulds (iron founder) in Edinburgh. I found Elizabeth Faulds in the Census records and her death certificate. This gives her parents as John Rhymer (landed proprietor) and her mother as Elizabeth Frith.

I can only find one marriage between a John Rymer and Elizabeth Frith and that was 27 Sep 1758 in Formby in Lancashire. The Rymer (Rimmer) name seems to have originated around the area of Formby, Ormskirk and Southport so that makes some sense.

So, it's a bit slender but, is, at least, an alternative to the idea that they must have been from Bristol because they called their estate Cliftonhill. Clifton is quite a common name and Lancashire has a couple of places called Clifton.

If I can, I want to try to visit Coatbridge museum (I work nearby) to see if they have more evidence either way. What a shame that the vast wealth disappeared :-)

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 3 Dec 2012 7:12PM GMT
Classification: Query
Aha! Martha Faulds. Many that for this. I couldn't find her.

It also reinforces the Elizabeth Rymer/John Faulds marriage if there was a lot of intermarriage between the families. Interesting stuff.

I've not looked into the Waddells much but Waddells seem to have been a landed family in Old Monkland as well?

Re: Waddell/Rymer

Posted: 4 Dec 2012 3:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi,

I am the descendant of the Rymer Waddell marriage. Alexander Waddell was Archibald's father and he was the writer, and so was his father George (one of their notebooks is in the Scottish archives) Archibald Douglas Waddell who was Elizabeth's second husband was a baker by trade.

I have managed to trace back into Bristol slave ship captains named rymer, whihc explains much of how they may have come to be in the West Indes, though Liverpool was another major slaving port. There is a will for a Bushell Rymer a mariner of bristol dated 1745 who seemed to be a privateer/pirate judging by his will. maybe it was the prizes that the rymer mariners won that enabled them to buy ships.

regards

gabrielle
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