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need translation for Scottish motto

Replies: 13

Re: need translation for Scottish motto

Posted: 10 Sep 2013 2:13AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 10 Sep 2013 2:16AM GMT
{{ Is it called the Coat of Arms? (What is it a picture of?)}}
The image from fidget44035 Posted: 15 Apr 2008 12:42AM indistinctly shows quartered arms with a Douglas in the second quarter, which usually indicates a Douglas heiress' line introduced into the family. The first quarter is normally the 'surname of the shield' as it belongs to the male who bears these arms and, in this case, does not appear to be a Douglas, even though the surname of Douglas is shown below the achievement, normally an indication of a 'bucket-shop production'. The 'crest' isn't anything that I could identify and not knowing the tinctures of the other arms, it would prove a daunting task to correctly identify it.!

The arms of the Chief of the Douglas Clan are Argent a Man's Heart Gules Imperially Crowned proper on a Chief Azure three Mollets Argent with the motto of 'Jamais Arrier'. You can find out more about Clan Douglas (of which there is no current chieftain able to bear those arms) at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Douglas

A Coat of arms is the 'general' name for an Armorial Achievement and consists of a shield, helm, crest, mantling and motto. There are also sometimes additions of items called supporters, but they are usually confined to corporate entities, members of the peerage, or holders of Knight Grand Cross or equivalent in knightly orders. See attachment for enlightenment.

{{Everyone who calls it a family crest seems to get struck by lightning so im sure its not called that. }}
And quite rightly so! The crest of an armorial achievement is, as the name itself implies, the crest part of the achievement - i.e., the bit that sits right at the top (see dictionary definition of the word 'crest'), on top of the helm. You've got to know what you're talking about, so you will have to do a little homework first before you ask questions that will elicit meaningful answers.

{{I know that the black and white photo that was posted earlier in the thread resembles the same one that my grandparents have at their house. }}
That's all well and good, but what is the provenance of that 'photo' in your grandparent's house? It may have come from one of those 'bucket shops' as they've been around 'selling arms for your family name' for over a couple of hundred years now! Anyone can get hold of A coat of arms and put it in their home for future generations, but that is completely meaningless unless there is documented evidence proving that there is some sort of link. Without a fully documented pedigree it is meaningless.

{{ Im sure there is a trail leading my paternal bloodline somewhere, and considering my grandparents have this same image, it may belong to my family. }}
Don't hold your breath whilst you investigate further. Of course there is a trail of your ancestral bloodline, but whether or not it leads anywhere is something that you shouldn't expect to end positively as Family research takes time, money and accuracy.

{{ Dont quote me on anything, im not trying to claim anything. Just trying to learn something.}}
That's good as I'm trying to impart some heraldic knowledge to you in the hope that it will pique your interest to go and do some reading/research on the subject.

{{ Also, I have tried searching for the same image online, and I have not been able to find it elsewhere. Which is why I was surprised to find it on this website from another users posting.}}
The only image that I have seen earlier in this thread was a very indistinct shield of arms that may well have been of A Douglas armorial registration, but unlikely as the Douglas arms were in the second quarter. If you want a coloured coat of arms for the Chieftain of the Douglas Clan, just let me know and I can provide one for you. I have records of over 50 different armorial registrations for the surname of Douglas. Have you any documentary proof that one of them might belong to your personal ancestral bloodline?

{{ Maybe its someone in my family that I may be related too, I don't know. }}
And you never will know unless you start communicating with that person and research your respective pedigrees. Only then will you find if you have a common ancestor, and even if that person is, or is not, from an armigerous bloodline.

Also, you have to remember that, as I clearly said before, arms from any one of the Heraldic Authorities in the British Isles are personal arms and belong to a particular person and his bloodline descendants, as differenced by the applicable heraldic authority. Just because you might have a picture/photo/image of a specific coat of arms, that certainly does not in itself prove anything!

If I happened to have the paternal surname of Smith, would you think it ethical, moral or correct for me to just pick any one of the over 500 Smith arms that are registered for that surname and say that it was 'my family's arms'?

{{ Dont quote me on anything, im not trying to claim anything. Just trying to learn something. }}
That's good, as all I'm trying to do is to pique your interest and hope that you will take the time and make the effort to do some research/reading on the subject. If you can establish a documentary pedigree going back to a specific armiger of the same bloodline and surname, you may well have a case for approaching one of the Heraldic Authorities to have those arms registered in your own name. However, I wouldn't even try if you haven't already got the requisite documentation to submit for official approval which is something that they would have to verify before your application could even be considered.

If you think that I may be able to assist you further, you can contact me via email; you can get hold of me at gjksau at yahoo dot com dot au

Good Hunting!
Attachments:
SubjectAuthorDate Posted
gjks 10 Sep 2013 8:13AM GMT 
gjks 13 Sep 2013 1:01AM GMT 
disneymom55 15 Aug 2013 5:13AM GMT 
tdouglas46 24 Nov 2011 2:51PM GMT 
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