I have e-mailed and spoken to some of you regarding the my Holler line out of Manchester Township, York, York, PA. Recently, knowing that in some records "Holler" is written down as "Holder", I checked the 1850 census. There, in Manchester Twnshp, I found Francis Holler "Jr", with all his kids (including my Gr Gr grandad Jacob) AND.. here's the exciting part, listed following him is HIS FATHER FRANCIS, SR. We now have a birth date and place! - he was 87 in 1850 and born in Pennsyvania. That makes his birth year either 1763 or 1764 depending on the month. There was talk about him being born on the Atlantic Ocean in 1772, but this confirms that he was born in PA in 1763. Early records show his name as Frantz Holler, but apparently he "anglicized" it to Francis. The "Holder" mis-spelling seems to show up in a variety of places, but I feel that it's just lazy penmanship. His tombstome reads HOLLER.