Army Service Corps WW1
Replies: 9
Re: Army Service Corps WW1
 JeffH01
(View posts)
|
Posted: 2 Mar 2008 6:09PM GMT |
Classification: Query
No I’m not saying there is likely to more information on the image from the National Archives. What I am saying is I’ve not viewed the medal card image either on Ancestry or the National Archives so I can only base my views on other images of medal index cards I have seen. Some cards are simple and straightforward, but with others there is more information that can sometimes be seen or interpreted once you have a better understanding of the content and that only comes from reading various guides and other peoples interpretations. I’m a registered user of Ancestry not a subscriber and therefore I cannot view any images but I note that Ancestry gives the options of viewing “the record” or “the image”. What I can say is if Ancestry have re-filmed the index cards that were transferred from the NA to the Western Front Association when the NA had finished with them, then the actual image [not the transcribed record] should be one and the same. One caveat, The NA filmed the cards in groups of six cards to an image, whereas Ancestry may have the cards individually on an image.
Have a look at my replies to the post “Army Service Corps WWI” by “ellenjohn1” showing the date of 1st March. I’ve attached a different medal card image to each of my two replies [note that I’ve extracted the images from the six group on the actual NA pdf file.]
The 1st [28 Feb] is for J Minihane of the Grenadier Guards. He was a Private when he landed in France 23 November 1914 and qualified for the 1914-1915 Star. When he was discharged medically unfit and awarded the Silver War Badge he was a Corporal. That was also his rank at the end of the war and if you look above left of the C of Cpl there’s a cross with couple of dots. Now look at the medal list above and you’ll see a similar cross next to the word Victory, this shows he was a corporal when he was awarded the British War & Victory Medals. This means that his rank stamped on his Star will be Private and Corporal will be on the rim of his other two medals.
The 2nd image on my next post for Frederick Rumbold, shows a similar rank change, this time from Cpl when qualifying for his 1914 Star to Acting Staff Sergeant when he was awarded the British War & Victory Medals. Of particular interest in this case is what’s written in the Corps box on the same level as Cpl, that is the unit within the ASC Fred started in. I’ve interpreted the abbreviated text as No 4 Horse Transport Reserve Park that became 20th Company ASC and I’ve given my reasons.
I can’t say your grandfather’s medal index card will show the Company he served with only someone viewing the actual index card image can answer that. Finally my reference to the actual medal rolls [not online]is that for the bulk of the army, unlike the index cards that normally only give a man’s regiment, the rolls will usually give the battalion he served in, but before you go looking or employing a researcher to check, you should be aware that generally it would less likely for them to show a sub-unit for a Corps and in those cases the rolls don’t have much more useful information than the medal cards.
Hope that helps clarify the matter. For more details have a look at the guide on medal search page of the NA’s web site or the 1914-1918.net web site [search for medal cards] there’s a detailed section on interpreting medal cards.
A final thought. There’s a Joseph Charles E Moore with a birth registered Sept Qtr 1876 in Oswestry and that would make that one 39 in 1915, close to the upper age limit but without the need to “prove age”, he could still have volunteered.
If that is your J Moore [or if his age fitted this theory] he may have served in a cavalry regiment earlier and was discharged prior to WWI, e.g. In the Boer War. I’ve checked the names extracted from the Queen’s South Africa Medal Roll’s for the Imperial Yeomanry and Cavalry listed on Kevin Asplin’s excellent site at http://hometown.aol.co.uk/kevinasplin/home.html , but I’m afraid the results are even more inconclusive than the WWI cards; several J Moore soldiers listed but none with either of Joseph’s other initials. He may well still have had prior army service but not in the Boer War, the problem is any record will have been with his WWI records.
Not sure if all that helps or not, as you’re still left with “balancing the evidence”.
Jeff
Have a look at my replies to the post “Army Service Corps WWI” by “ellenjohn1” showing the date of 1st March. I’ve attached a different medal card image to each of my two replies [note that I’ve extracted the images from the six group on the actual NA pdf file.]
The 1st [28 Feb] is for J Minihane of the Grenadier Guards. He was a Private when he landed in France 23 November 1914 and qualified for the 1914-1915 Star. When he was discharged medically unfit and awarded the Silver War Badge he was a Corporal. That was also his rank at the end of the war and if you look above left of the C of Cpl there’s a cross with couple of dots. Now look at the medal list above and you’ll see a similar cross next to the word Victory, this shows he was a corporal when he was awarded the British War & Victory Medals. This means that his rank stamped on his Star will be Private and Corporal will be on the rim of his other two medals.
The 2nd image on my next post for Frederick Rumbold, shows a similar rank change, this time from Cpl when qualifying for his 1914 Star to Acting Staff Sergeant when he was awarded the British War & Victory Medals. Of particular interest in this case is what’s written in the Corps box on the same level as Cpl, that is the unit within the ASC Fred started in. I’ve interpreted the abbreviated text as No 4 Horse Transport Reserve Park that became 20th Company ASC and I’ve given my reasons.
I can’t say your grandfather’s medal index card will show the Company he served with only someone viewing the actual index card image can answer that. Finally my reference to the actual medal rolls [not online]is that for the bulk of the army, unlike the index cards that normally only give a man’s regiment, the rolls will usually give the battalion he served in, but before you go looking or employing a researcher to check, you should be aware that generally it would less likely for them to show a sub-unit for a Corps and in those cases the rolls don’t have much more useful information than the medal cards.
Hope that helps clarify the matter. For more details have a look at the guide on medal search page of the NA’s web site or the 1914-1918.net web site [search for medal cards] there’s a detailed section on interpreting medal cards.
A final thought. There’s a Joseph Charles E Moore with a birth registered Sept Qtr 1876 in Oswestry and that would make that one 39 in 1915, close to the upper age limit but without the need to “prove age”, he could still have volunteered.
If that is your J Moore [or if his age fitted this theory] he may have served in a cavalry regiment earlier and was discharged prior to WWI, e.g. In the Boer War. I’ve checked the names extracted from the Queen’s South Africa Medal Roll’s for the Imperial Yeomanry and Cavalry listed on Kevin Asplin’s excellent site at http://hometown.aol.co.uk/kevinasplin/home.html , but I’m afraid the results are even more inconclusive than the WWI cards; several J Moore soldiers listed but none with either of Joseph’s other initials. He may well still have had prior army service but not in the Boer War, the problem is any record will have been with his WWI records.
Not sure if all that helps or not, as you’re still left with “balancing the evidence”.
Jeff