Long Range Desert Group & 1 SAS Service Records
Replies: 5
Re: Long Range Desert Group & 1 SAS Service Records
 JeffH01
(View posts)
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Posted: 30 Jun 2008 7:55PM GMT |
Classification: Query
This is a little longer than I initially intended..Since I started to prepare an answer you it has grown somewhat as I checked for confirmation of some items, but I felt you may be interested in most of what I'd collated I didn't remove anything.
There are 17 files listed in the National Archives catalogue, [see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ ] whose title specifically includes the words “special air service”, but I very much doubt any will contain a list of names and I doubt there is anything like a regimental muster or pay book that's survived. You could try the National Army Museum or the Imperial War Museum to see if they know of one. The files aren't online, so you'll have to get to Kew yourself or employ a researcher to check them for you – in this case an very expensive option.
Have you obtained his “records” from the MoD or are you referring to his certificate of discharge or pay book given to all ranks when they were discharged?
If the former I would have expected his records to mention at least some details of his training and “detachment to a special unit” or such like. If the latter I suggest you obtain his full records from the MoD – see http://www.veterans-uk.info/ LH side > service records.
Some more background and links for you.
I believe the 5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders was actually a pre-war Territorial Battalion that served from the start of the WWII and was “reinforced” by “hostilities only” conscripts after Dunkirk. It's certainly possible your father volunteered for one of the special units formed for commando raids on the European coasts before he went to N Africa or he could have joined the 1st SAS there, but from the dates you give, I doubt he was on the first raid that failed.
According to the book – Daggers Drawn [2nd WW Heroes of the SAS & SBS] by Mike Morgan, Sutton publishing - the disastrous first SAS mission took place on 16 November 1941, when 60 officers & men parachuted into the desert to attack some German front line airfields, but they were caught in gale force winds and were scattered over the desert; only 22 of the original force survived and most of those were picked up by the Long Range Desert Group. After that parachuting was abandoned and the LRDG would transport the SAS to and from the next raids.
The raid was by “L detachment, 1 SAS Brigade” that was actually the whole of the fledgling SAS, so named to make the enemy believe they were part of a much larger formation. L detachment was created from men recruited from the Layforce Commando units who were earmarked to be disbanded.
In June 1942 the SAS obtained some US jeeps of their own that gave them independence from the LRDG. By latter half of 1943, the unit had grown in size to around 400 all ranks and L detachment changed its name to become the 1st SAS Regiment [the 400 included 55 from the Special Boat Squadron who had been brought under the SAS]
The book lists another 21 books in it's bibliography. Only published in 2000 @ £19.99 hb, it would certainly be worth your while searching out a copy from your local library, it may enable you to set a timeline against the dates you have. [may not be needed – re below]
The difficulty in getting a definitive answer to the question of his actually serving with LRDG or SAS is that the 5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders, were in N Africa 1942-1943 as well, from there I believe it was Sicily and Italy but you don't mention them [A late relative of mine was in the 6th Bn Seaforth Highlanders and his pay book does place him in N Africa, Sicily & Italy]. I haven't found a reference to any Seaforth battalions being on Leros, in fact just the opposite, and the one I have found does place members of the LRDG/SAS/SBS on Leros at the time of the German invasion [Caithness Archives].
I should try and find out for certain if any men from the 5th Seaforth's [as a unit or a detachment from] were involved with the battle for Leros [11-16 November 1943] as the date of his capture coincides with the end of that battle; if not then it increases the probability that he was there by his being in special forces.
The Seaforth Highlanders archives are held at Queen's Own Highlanders Museum Collection, Fort George, Ardersier, Inverness-shire, IV2 3XD. Write to the Curator to enquire about the 5th Battalion, but they're unlikely to have an personal records.
Although it's a US based re-enactment group they may be able to help with advice, see http://www.lrdg.org/index.html , Leros is mentioned in paragraph 2 of the account of the assault on Levita on the history page and you'll notice links to Caithness Archives that contains quite a lot of information in a group of stories under Military – a quick check looks like if you read all stories and make notes, you could very well get some way in getting the confirmation you seek, at least special forces if not which one.
For a story about the battle of Leros taken from a book about one of the army regiments that were there. see http://leros2002.bravepages.com/leros_war2.html
Good luck
Jeff
There are 17 files listed in the National Archives catalogue, [see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ ] whose title specifically includes the words “special air service”, but I very much doubt any will contain a list of names and I doubt there is anything like a regimental muster or pay book that's survived. You could try the National Army Museum or the Imperial War Museum to see if they know of one. The files aren't online, so you'll have to get to Kew yourself or employ a researcher to check them for you – in this case an very expensive option.
Have you obtained his “records” from the MoD or are you referring to his certificate of discharge or pay book given to all ranks when they were discharged?
If the former I would have expected his records to mention at least some details of his training and “detachment to a special unit” or such like. If the latter I suggest you obtain his full records from the MoD – see http://www.veterans-uk.info/ LH side > service records.
Some more background and links for you.
I believe the 5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders was actually a pre-war Territorial Battalion that served from the start of the WWII and was “reinforced” by “hostilities only” conscripts after Dunkirk. It's certainly possible your father volunteered for one of the special units formed for commando raids on the European coasts before he went to N Africa or he could have joined the 1st SAS there, but from the dates you give, I doubt he was on the first raid that failed.
According to the book – Daggers Drawn [2nd WW Heroes of the SAS & SBS] by Mike Morgan, Sutton publishing - the disastrous first SAS mission took place on 16 November 1941, when 60 officers & men parachuted into the desert to attack some German front line airfields, but they were caught in gale force winds and were scattered over the desert; only 22 of the original force survived and most of those were picked up by the Long Range Desert Group. After that parachuting was abandoned and the LRDG would transport the SAS to and from the next raids.
The raid was by “L detachment, 1 SAS Brigade” that was actually the whole of the fledgling SAS, so named to make the enemy believe they were part of a much larger formation. L detachment was created from men recruited from the Layforce Commando units who were earmarked to be disbanded.
In June 1942 the SAS obtained some US jeeps of their own that gave them independence from the LRDG. By latter half of 1943, the unit had grown in size to around 400 all ranks and L detachment changed its name to become the 1st SAS Regiment [the 400 included 55 from the Special Boat Squadron who had been brought under the SAS]
The book lists another 21 books in it's bibliography. Only published in 2000 @ £19.99 hb, it would certainly be worth your while searching out a copy from your local library, it may enable you to set a timeline against the dates you have. [may not be needed – re below]
The difficulty in getting a definitive answer to the question of his actually serving with LRDG or SAS is that the 5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders, were in N Africa 1942-1943 as well, from there I believe it was Sicily and Italy but you don't mention them [A late relative of mine was in the 6th Bn Seaforth Highlanders and his pay book does place him in N Africa, Sicily & Italy]. I haven't found a reference to any Seaforth battalions being on Leros, in fact just the opposite, and the one I have found does place members of the LRDG/SAS/SBS on Leros at the time of the German invasion [Caithness Archives].
I should try and find out for certain if any men from the 5th Seaforth's [as a unit or a detachment from] were involved with the battle for Leros [11-16 November 1943] as the date of his capture coincides with the end of that battle; if not then it increases the probability that he was there by his being in special forces.
The Seaforth Highlanders archives are held at Queen's Own Highlanders Museum Collection, Fort George, Ardersier, Inverness-shire, IV2 3XD. Write to the Curator to enquire about the 5th Battalion, but they're unlikely to have an personal records.
Although it's a US based re-enactment group they may be able to help with advice, see http://www.lrdg.org/index.html , Leros is mentioned in paragraph 2 of the account of the assault on Levita on the history page and you'll notice links to Caithness Archives that contains quite a lot of information in a group of stories under Military – a quick check looks like if you read all stories and make notes, you could very well get some way in getting the confirmation you seek, at least special forces if not which one.
For a story about the battle of Leros taken from a book about one of the army regiments that were there. see http://leros2002.bravepages.com/leros_war2.html
Good luck
Jeff