Legends - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Missouri Urban Legends

jamez423 — 2013-03-12 18:15:21Z

I recently researched and penned an article for Tuning Fork TV regarding urban legends from NW Missouri. I am in the process of researching another article on urban legends and folklore that are akin to certain regions. If there is a story in your hometown that would fit into the vein of an urban legend, I'd love to hear it. To get an idea of what I might be looking for, you may read my original article for free at http://tuningfork.tv/?p=1866

Thanks in advance for any information!

The Beautiful Stranger of the Hotel Del Coronado in Coronado California

js123491 — 2013-02-04 22:44:13Z

This is a summary of over 2 1/2 years of research I did on the legend of the Beautiful Stranger of the Hotel Del Coronado, located in Coronado, California. I am truly indebted to Ancestry.com for providing critical resources that aided in producing this story.

The Beautiful Stranger legend dates to November 24, 1892 when a young woman presented herself at the swanky Hotel Del Coronado. To all accounts she appeared to be alone. She was recorded in the register as "Mrs. Lottie A. Bernard".

She conversed with few people at the hotel, remained mainly to herself. The woman claimed to be sick, saying to most people that she suffered from neuralgia.

The day after she checked in the woman asked the hotel's Chief Clerk - Mr. Gomer - how she might claim her bags as her travelling companion had the baggage claim checks. She said she had become separated from this man on her trip to San Diego. Mr. Gomer told her she could simply identify her trunks at the train station, describe their contents, and the bags would be handed over. The woman told him she planned to do this the following Monday, November 28.

On Monday morning she slipped in the bath tub and rang for her porter, Mr. West, to come dry her hair as was the custom at that time. She asked Mr. West to bring a morning whiskey. This attracted the attention of Mr. Gomer who spoke with the young woman that same morning. The most information we have regarding who she might have actually been comes from that conversation.

Mr. Gomer found the woman in bed in her room. He offered to make her a fire but she declined. He asked if she had claimed her bags. She said she had not yet done so as she was not feeling well. When Mr. Gomer asked if he could call the hotel doctor, he was told that she had already seen the finest doctors and they had given up on her. At this point she claimed to have stomach cancer, and not neuralgia as she had said earlier. She also told Mr. Gomer that she had travelled with her brother, who she said was a Dr Anderson, and that it was this man from whom she was separated on their trip to San Diego. She did not know his whereabouts. She seemed to think he might show up soon. Mr. Gomer suggested that she must need funds which she acknowledged. Since she did not know the whereabouts of her travelling companion, he asked if there was anyone else they might contact in that regard. She told him to contact a Mr. G. L. Allen of Hamburg, Iowa. This gentleman should be able to authorize funds on her behalf. Mr. Gomer telegraphed Mr. Allen indeed received authorization to withdraws funds from his Iowa bank account the following day.

In the meantime however, things turned for the worse for the young woman. Monday evening she asked her porter for matches to burn some papers. The following morning she was discovered by a hotel employee dead on steps leading down to the Pacific Ocean shore behind the Hotel. She appeared to have committed suicide with a revolver that lay nearby. There was a single bullet in her head.

The travelling companion did not appear in the ensuing days, despite the story circulating throughout Southern California and even to Detroit from whence she had claimed to have come. In the next weeks, two different young women had been identified as potentially being the Beautiful Stranger. The first was named Lyzzie Wyllie - she had disappeared with a married man for whom she had worked in a Detroit book bindery. However it was discovered that she had returned to her native Canada by December 1892 and her relatives stopped communicating with the San Diego authorities. The second woman seemed by all accounts to be the proper person. Her name was Kate Morgan. She was married to a Thomas Morgan in 1885 in Riverton, Iowa near Hamburg, Iowa. She had come West to California in 1890 without first divorcing her husband Thomas. She had worked in Los Angeles in the ensuring years for three different families. Her most recent employer had been the Grant family. It was this family who first alerted the San Diego authorities to the possibility that Kate Morgan (who they knew by the name Katie Logan) might be the true identity of the Beautiful Stranger. Convincing yet circumstantial evidence seemed to suggest that Kate Morgan was indeed the Beautiful Stranger.

This is the identity which to this day is still beleived correct by most people who have studied the history of this legend. But all may not be as obvious as it seems. The devil is truly in the details.

The hotel staff at the time did not believe the woman had been of ordinary birth. She seemed to be more refined. This staff was accustomed to dealing with the elite and upper classes; the Hotel Del Coronado regularly accomodated royalty, heads of state, and captains of industry. It was not a hotel where book bindery girls, farm girls and housekeepers took accomodations.

Two months before the young woman appeared at the Hotel, the General Manager issued a memo to the desk staff entitled "Characteristics of Persons of Propriety". This memo cautioned the desk staff to be on the lookout for people who simply do not belong. It described the typical confirmation procedure most guests used with this hotel and other fine hotels of the period. This all suggests that it would have been difficult for someone simply walking in the door.

Kate Morgan is known to have been working at the Grant household in Los Angeles up until the morning of November 23, 1892. That morning she left saying she had to have some papers signed. She was never seen again. The next day the Beautiful Stranger checked into the Hotel Del Coronado. But was it the same woman? Not so, according to one Mr. Joseph Jones, whose name appears in the Hotel register immediately after that of the Beautiful Stranger. In fact, Mr. Jones told Mr. West two days after the young woman's body was discovered that Jones had seen the woman "in the company of a well-dressed gentleman" on the train from Denver to San Diego. Jones further indicated the had seen the man leave the train at Orange, California, just as the young woman had told Mr. Gomer a few days earlier. Not only this, but Mr. Jones was certain that he saw this same woman in the hotel the weekend after he checked in and on the train at Denver. If this were all true, there is no way that woman could have been Kate Morgan. She had to be someone else.

But was Mr. Jones trustworthy? Or was he, as some other authors have suggested simply using an alias? Using Ancestry.com resources, I found that Mr. Jones was an export agent living near India at the time and came into the country October 10, 1892. He was also a Consular officer with a home in Great Neck, New York. He appears to have visited his parents in his native Boston before continuing his journey westward to Denver. He visited an old business partner named Mr. Arnold before he left the San Diego area. His credentials are impeccable, he does not seem to be related to the young woman in any way, and therefore he seems trustworthy.

The telegrams exchanged between Mr. Allen and Mr. Gomer are quite instructive. Here are the actual texts between the two men. First the message from Mr. Gomer to Mr. Allen:

"Mrs Lottie A Bernard seeks your assistance in funding her stay in the amount of $25.00. Please responds as soon as possible."

Here is Mr. Allen's response to Mr. Gomer:

"While I do not know the woman, I do know her husband having gone to school with him. I therefore authorize a draw of $25.00 upon my bank, Farmers and Merchants, of Hamburg, Iowa."

The important line in the text above is the note that Mr. Allen does not know the Beautiful Stranger but did go to school with her husband. This gives us a direct unambiguous clue as to her actual identity.

Every author thought the woman was Kate Morgan because, among other reasons, she had come West in 1890 with George L. Allen's elder brother, who seems to have vanished thereafter. So it made perfect sense that Kate Morgan would have asked George Allen for assistance. The Allens had grown up on a farm adjacent to where Kate Morgan's husband Thomas Morgan had grown up. So on the surface it all seems to fit together. But all is not always quite that simple.

Thomas Morgan was fully twenty years younger than the Allen boys. Not only that, in Sangamon County Illinios where they all grew up, the schools were uncharacteristically segregated by grades; this was uncommon in this period. Thus it was unlikely if not impossible that Mr. Allen had ever been in school with Mr. Morgan. In fact, the Morgans left the area in 1871, about the time Thomas Morgan would have first entered school. This is how the Morgans came to reside in Southwestern Iowa. Mr. Allen remained in Illinois until he sold his family farm around 1885. At that time he relocated to take over his late uncle's house in Hamburg, Iowa. That is how he came to be in Hamburg in 1892.

Clearly the Beautiful Stranger knew Mr. Allen was in Hamburg Iowa. And Mr. Allen would have known both Thomas and Kate Morgan as he came to live in this close-knit farm county years before Kate Morgan left the area. Something is clearly amiss.

I looked to see who else was living near the Allens and Morgans in Sagamon County in 1860. It turns out there was a "Barnard" family not far away. There were boys in this family of the correct age to have gone to school with Mr. Allen in those years. So it was beginning to appear the young woman's name might have been "Barnard" and not "Bernard". Careful inspection of later census records at Ancestry.com seemed to favor the "Barnard" variation.

But how did this different spelling appear in the Hotel registery? The young woman's name was recorded by the on-duty desk clerk; the signature is not hers. He could have easily misheard the name. And it is also significant that Mr. Allen indicated his relationship to the woman to Mr. Gomer even though he was not asked about this. Mr. Allen would have known that telegraphic errors were not uncommon in the late 19th century. A single signal error would transpose a Morse code "A" into an "E". So he wanted to be sure they were speaking about the same woman before authorizing a draw on his bank account.

Looking at the 1890 Detroit directory we do indeed find a woman named Mrs. Charlotte Barnard living by herself in a rooming house. She vanishes from the area not long thereafter. There is another Barnard family in the area, but she must not have been related as this family is found later in Northern Michigan. One boy from this family was a clerk for decades for a regional railway company.

If this woman was married to one of the Sangamon County Barnards, she might well have known that Mr. Allen was a trustworthy individual. It appears she was a widow. Likely her husband had kept in contact with Mr Allen in the ensuing years, which explains how she knew of Allen's relocation to Iowa.

Being a widow she may have travelled on the train not with her brother but with some other man, perhaps a fiance. When asked she may have purposely misidentified this man to Mr. Gomer to stop further inquiries. It is curious that the woman I discovered who I believe is the actual woman involved had a brother named Norman Anderson. This man was living with his family on farm in Colorado in 1892. Mr. Gomer thought the young woman said her travelling companion's name was "M.C. Anderson". This is quite close to the brother's actual initials, "N.C. Anderson."

The actual identity of this other man is not known for sure, but some anciallary information that has come to my attention suggests his surname might have been "Barnett".

I finally determined that the woman was most likely Canadian born with the Anderson surname, had come with her family to the United States at a young age and had married a Barnard sometime around the mid to late 1880s. By 1890 she seems to have either been divorced or more likely widowed, and met her travelling companion in or near Detroit. Thereafter she accompanied him on their trip to San Diego where she tragically died at the Hotel Del Coronado November 28, 1892.

The most intriguing piece of evidence is a letter discovered in the young woman's room the day she was found on the steps near the beach. This letter was addressed to her by name and was characterized as "an invitiation to come to the Hotel Del Coronado, signed by Louise Leslie-Carter and Lillian Russell."

Both these ladies were famous stage actresses of the period. Lillian Russell was perhaps more well-known in her time than Cher or Madonna today. Neither woman came anywhere near San Diego at the end of 1892 according to their biographers.

The biographer of Louise Leslie-Carter said that she only signed private correspondence in that manner. Public corresponence was always signed Mrs. Leslie-Carter. So it appears this letter was not a marketing piece as most have thought, but was instead a private letter to the young woman herself.

Furthermore, the baggage tags - as reported in the San Diego Union newspaper - suggested she made a stop between Detroit and Omaha, Nebraska en route to San Diego. Accoriding to railroad historians, the most likely stopping point would have been Chicago, Illinois. Both women lived at the time in Chicago. It is quite possible she picked up this letter at one of the two woman's homes probably from a footman or servant. That would explain why her name was on the envelope, since both ladies were on tour at the time.

This letter has never before been explained satisfactorily. Now we have not only a suitable explanation, but another clear indication that, despite circumstantial evidence to the contrary, Kate Morgan simply could not have been the Beautiful Stranger of the Hotel Del Coronado. Kate Morgan (nor Lizzie Wyllie for that matter) simply did not travel in these social circles.

Thomas and Kate Morgan seem to factually have nothing to do with this Legend, despite many books having told and retold this erroneous story over the years.

But what of Kate Morgan? In some strange ways, Lottie Barnard's story is not really complete unless we can account for the eventual demise of Kate Morgan.

Kate Morgan is known to have been fascinated by San Francisco, which was a vibrant city in 1890s California.
It is likely she was called away or simply left Los Angeles for reasons we will never know. Her departure was entirely coincidental to the events at the Hotel Del Coronado.

Kate Morgan was trying to remain undetected. She was still married to her husband Thomas. She didn't know he had written her off and could not have care less about her. She most likely took the alias "Katie Logan" in Los Angeles for this exact reason. People on the run dream of some circumstance that will permenantly convince others they are gone for good. The San Francisco papers carried the story of the Beautiful Stranger. Kate Morgan had to know about it. She probably could not believe her luck; Fate had handed her what she needed - a plausible story of her own demise. There was no reason to contradict it. She was able to live her life in California in piece.

But did this really happen? In the 1900 Census of San Francisco I do find a Kate Morgan living near the financial district. She is working as a clerk in an insurance office and has one son who is about the correct age had she had a son during this early period. Curiously, the father's place of birth is Unknown. She claims to have been born in Colorado of Colorado born parents. She is exactly the right age for Kate Morgan born in Iowa. The signs are all there. She vanishes not long thereafter and cannot be found again. It is possible that she died in the 1906 earthquakes in San Francisco. Her neighborhood and in fact the entire financial district was devastated; many people died whose hames were never recorded. This would have been a most tragic end to the life of this woman whose identity has confounded so many for so long. Her son seems not to have survied either. While this story cannot be corroborated in-depth, at least it provide a plausible possible outcome.

There are two salient points to take away from this story besides the fascinating history and the clear role played in the research by Ancestry.com.

First, many people have tried to understand the real story and most have failed in their attempts because they did not take the time to fact check their assumptions carefully enough. During my research I checked each version from others; I wanted to understand where they had gone wrong if so. And I found significant but understandable errors in each case.

Second, this story shows how a faulty history can persist for decades and even centuries unless we who care about historical truth rigorously pursue it no matter where the facts may lead. Had I found another version of the story that seemed more likely, I would certainly have recounted it here.

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Re: Looking for a lost inheritance in London, England

CynthiaPhillips57 — 2012-12-16 00:48:28Z

Goofy cuz told this tale....not reliable....sorry.

Re: Tex Beneke - My Cousin??

LJ012251 — 2012-11-16 00:41:49Z

Hello my name is Linda Bottorff Joiner and Tex Beneke's wife Sandra was a good friend of my Dad's. Anyway, I don't know if you heard or not but Sandra went home to be with our Lord and Saviour Jesus today, November 15, 2012. She had moved back to Huntington Beach, California to have her daughter and son-in-law take care of her. She died of cancer.

Re: Cherokee blood

hawki231 — 2012-07-19 07:19:32Z

Well the easiest way to find out is to check Indian rolls. One example is the Dawes which enrolled Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek signed between 1898 and 1914 in Oklahoma aka Indian territory.

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalindex.php

That link gives you access to searching the Dawes, check to see if any of your grandmothers parents or grandparents appear on it. Also check Indian census records here on Ancestry and at
http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native
there are a bunch of different rolls that you can check to see if you have an ancestor that was listed on it.

Re: Tex Beneke - My Cousin??

scottj4852000 — 2012-02-16 04:30:09Z

Hello, My name is Scott Jones and I am a second cousin of Tex Beneke. My father was his first cousin and my grandmother,s maiden name was Caroline Beneke. She married my grandfather and became Caroline Beneke Jones. My mother is currently in a nursing home in North Carolina and I found some old photographs of Tex and my father in her home. The photos are sign by Tex Beneke. Another part of the story is that my father was born in Chattanooga, Tn. and of course Tex is most known for, was the song "Chattanooga Choo Choo". I saw that the original request for information was asked in 2008, so I do not know if this response will get to anybody.

John Wilkes Booth

klafamily — 2011-10-18 19:17:21Z

I am wondering if anyone else has a family "legend" about John Wilkes Booth. As you may know there is some historical controversy on whether or not Booth was actually killed in the barn on Richard Garrett's property on April 26, 1865. Many conspiracy theories have been spun. Whether or not my family has one of those or not remains to be seen, but they do have a story whereby they do not believe John Wilkes Booth died in the barn on Richard Garrett's property.

The fact that they were southerner's (from Kentucky) may have helped this theory; however, family legend says that my great-great-uncle Jim Webster, who was a child in the late 1880s, had a teacher that the family thought was John Wilkes Booth. They said he resembled JWB, except he was clean-shaven, he walked with a limp in the same leg that JWB broke when jumping from the theater seat to the stage. Additionally, Uncle Jim always claimed that when this teacher was teaching history and they took a field trip to the birthplace of Lincoln (which was nearby), the teacher would always mention going just a little further down the road to the birthplace of the "real" President (Jefferson Davis). Lastly, when the subject of Lincoln's assasination would come up in history class, the teacher would skip over that section and say, "Well you all know what happened."

Kari Farnell

Re: everyone's related?

Lesa_Bielman — 2011-07-07 16:21:56Z

Yep! Most native American Languages have a saying that means we are all related. Mitakuye Oyasin is Lakota Msit nokamaq is Lnu. We live in a fishbowl is space so how can we not be?

everyone's related?

rmwilliamsjr85705 — 2011-06-27 02:14:32Z

i'm curious. is everyone related? i found out today my wife and i share an ancestor, 11th great grandfather for her and 13th for me. can any european descended person find relationships like this? we both have 23andme data and don't match at all. i saw that it's a genealogy game to trace random people to Charlemagne, between 30-40% of europeans can. i did that in 40 generations for both my wife and i, for grins and giggles.

so, take any two random people, statistically can you usually find a common lineage in 15, 20,40 generations?

Re: Looking for a lost inheritance in London, England

halpark — 2011-06-15 22:28:02Z

I think you have a certain amount of fantasy running around here. Firstly, Neville Chamberlain was Chancellor of the Exchequer from 1931 (Ramsay McDonald's "National Government) to 1937. He was not Prime Minister during WW2 - he was Prime Minister from 1937 and it was his policy of appeasement with Hitler which many claim precipitated the outbreak of war. He resigned in May 1940 when Churchill took over and died in Oct-Nov of the same year. One thing is absolutely certain, whatever else might be true I can assure you no Chancellor of the Exchequer would be making trips to the US just to find heirs to an estate, it would be nothing to do with him. Even if there had been a fire which destroyed documents, copies of such things are always available from the original office. There is only one death for an Anne Ransford registered between 1915-1925 and she died in the March quarter 1918 and had been born in 1844 -so could hardly be a godmother to someone born in 1835, and if Suzanne was baptised in Louisiana how was somebody in London the godmother? There would have been no necessity for anyone to go to London to claim, as long as they had identification it could all have been done by post. If a proper Will had been drawn up it would have had executors appointed whose job it would be to find the legatees. It is true that if there is no Will the money reverts to the State, but only after thirty years if no one has come forward to claim it. I am not sure, but I think if there is a valid Will no one but the named heirs can claim anything. Anyway, once a person is dead all Wills, except for the Queen and her immediate family, are public property and filed for ever. If you google Wills and Probate UK you will find endless links to various records and archives and should be able to get any details. Steer clear of any links which do not have ".gov.uk" in the URL, these are official sites and are mostly free but all sorts of people offer services for which they ask for payment. You can check BMDs on the Free BMD site which is important beause you must have the name right - was the name really Ransford or Rainsford, was this her maiden name, or did she marry? As said, my gut feeling is that this story holds a lot of fantasy - but I could be wrong and it is easy enough to trace a Will - if there ever was one. Hope this helps a bit.

Camels Crossing the Mountains...

fugemoses — 2011-04-25 14:44:21Z

There is an old family story that my paternal grandmother's maternal grandmother's family came across the mountains of Tennessee to North Carolina on camels. As a child I was fascinated by this story, in college, I thought that great-great grandma Shyver might have had an elaborate hallucination life in her old age.

Yesterday, I was speaking to my grandmother about her family history and the story came up again. I showed her what I had studied about her family and how I had never come up with anyone in her family that had come from Tennessee, much less on camel. My grandmother swears by this story, though and so I thought I would turn here. Apparently, there was at one time written copies of the story passed down through the family and I thought I would call out to see if someone here is perhaps a cousin from a branch that has an existing copy.

My family's written copy originated from my 2nd great grandmother Mona Shyver (1884-1955; b: NC, married name Hudson)'s sister - Frankie Shyver (1886-1966, b. Onslow Co. NC, d. Rocky Mount, NC, married name - Phillips). Apparently, Aunt Frankie wrote out a few copies of the story and passed one to my branch. It got to one of my grand-aunts who was a family historian. She kept it only a short while until her sister asked to borrow it for a bit and it was never seen again.

I felt like I had my research fairly well, but I could be off or it could be a branch that I haven't been able to trace well. If anyone has this story in their family or is related to Aunt Frankie's branch and has a written copy I would love to have an emailed copy.

In order to help give leads or perhaps connect to someone (there's not a Shyver or Shiver board) here are some names, though the story might be earlier than these individuals, who all have origins in around Onslow County NC:

Mona Shyver (1884-1955)
Frankie Shyver (1886-1966)
Cyrus Fred Shyver (1892-1949)
Frank (possibly Evan Frank) Shyver (1859-?)
Mary H Jarman (married Frank) (1849-?)
Robert Louis Jarman (1815-1884)
Lucinda Whaley Basden (married Robert Louis Jarman) (1820-1895) - there is one hint that Lucinda might have been born in Tennessee was born in Tennessee and this is the best TN connection I have found but no camel ties that I know.

a knight of the first crusade

elaineseager — 2011-04-19 13:50:50Z

My Dad told us a story of a knight from the first crusade that made it back home to England and he either knew or some how met a princess and they were married. The King hunted them down and had the princess devorice the knight and she married someone else. I don't know who he was, except he was a Seager. I don't know if there is anyone else out there that has the same story. I don't know if he was even a Templar knight.Is there some way we can find out about this? We have very little info on this. So thank you for reading this. Shannon Seager

Re: Family Legends

margamal — 2011-01-17 00:11:14Z

Am I correct it thinking that you are asking for our family stories so you can publish them, thereby establishing ownership of them and perhaps make some money from the same?

If that is the case, I'll pass and I'd advise others to do the same.

Re: Cherokee Ancestor?

nowisthetime2009 — 2010-12-01 05:17:27Z

There are MANY Bryant's on the native american lists.....both Cherokee AND Choctaw.

This story ABSOLUTELY could be true. Many babies have been found abandoned, leaving them to be cared for by others, when whatever situation they were in, wouldn't allow them to either raise the child or tell anyone about it.

If you want to PM me, I'll help you look up Bryant in the Catalogs if you get stuck.

But, go to: SEARCH
The drop down arrow will take you to CARD CATALOG (click on that option)
Then, in the KEYWORD search box, type in Cherokee...it will bring up all the , catalogs to search in. You'll need to search all since they are not filed together.

Once you get somewhere, you can go to website to look up that person's name (closest to who you think it is) and it will show all people who are registered to that member.

Wishing you good luck!

Re: Francois of Cajun Savoie family of Louisana and Canada

mtaht — 2010-11-02 12:05:27Z

Have added a new webpage on Thomas Francois de Savoy:

http://LAgenealogy.net/SavoyThomasFrancois

Best wishes,
Mike Talbot

Re: Francois of Cajun Savoie family of Louisana and Canada

mtaht — 2010-10-11 14:52:28Z

As a descendant of Francois Savoie, as are most(?) Cajuns, I have searched for decades of any evidence that Francois was the son of Thomas Francois prince de Carignan de Savoie. Have found none.

For those interested in Thomas Francois de Savoie's ancestry, he is an ancestor of Brooke Shields. See the middle of the very long web page at:

http://lagenealogy.net/shieldsBrooke.aspx

There you will find a 5 generation ancestor chart for Thomas Francois (Tomasso for Italians) with pictures. The court language of Savoie/Savoy was still French during his life. There are other Acadian and Louisiana oriented pages at the site.

Best wishes,
Mike Talbot

Re: Mixed Up Family Facts.

silverstream87 — 2010-10-03 22:48:29Z

Grandpa Ben had a brother named Charles Wright who's from Port Jervis,New York,Grandpa Ben died in April 1990,he was born on December 11,1923,Grandpa lived in Middletown,New York most of his life,and it is possible that he was in Ellis Island for 2-3 years,and I know that there is a street in Middletown,New York,named after Harold Wright.

Re: Mixed Up Family Facts.

cemcrawler — 2010-10-03 19:42:05Z

Do you have any dates of death or years of death for any of the people you have listed ?
Do you know the area (city, town, county etc.) for any of the people you have listed ?
Did Ben have any brothers or sisters ?
Any more information you have will help.

Re: Mixed Up Family Facts.

silverstream87 — 2010-10-03 17:16:40Z

All of this,everything happened in New York.

Re: Mixed Up Family Facts.

cemcrawler — 2010-10-02 23:26:09Z

What state ?

Mixed Up Family Facts.

silverstream87 — 2010-09-29 00:36:09Z

I'm a little bit confused with my family history right now.
Okay,so,as I understand it,my Great-Grandfather is Harold Wright and my Great-Grandmother is Harriet Wright.My Grandfather is Benjamin Wright.My Grandmother is Doris Wright,my Mother is Linda Wright Rodriguez(Rodriguez because of marriage.)And the timeline is like this:
.Harold married a mystery woman
.The mysterious woman gave birth to Grandpa Ben
.Harold married Harriet
.Grandpa Ben Married Grandma Doris
.Grandma Doris gave birth to my Mother,Linda
First,my mother was told that Grandma was born in 1933
She told me Grandpa was born in 1923
But she said that Grandpa was not 10 years older than my Grandma.It is also said,that my Grandmother gave birth to a boy,but gave him up because she was too young when she had him.So,the mysteries of my family are:Who's my real Great-Grandma,When was my Grandma born,and Who is my long lost Uncle?Does anyone know anything that might be able to help?If so,please reply.
Also,I am related somehow to Wilbur and Orville Wright(The Wright Brothers,)so if anyone can help figure that out,please reply.

Re: Pierced in the Arm by a British sword

michaelbartley46 — 2010-08-17 16:33:56Z

Its an impossibility for you relative to have fought under William of Orange and at Waterloo. The Battle of the Boyne was in 1690, Waterloo 1815, unless he was one of those rare 150 year old soldiers you hear of.

Britain as a nation also did'nt exist in 1690. (Act of Union 1707)

Francois of Cajun Savoie family of Louisana and Canada

Mohnbauer — 2010-06-15 20:23:39Z

"It could be Francois Savoie. He was The son of Prince Tomaso Francesco Savoy of Turin Italy. His mother was French. Marie de Soissons de Bourbon. 1606-1692. Francois was born abt1621. He fled to Acadia Canada, after a feud over who would be the next Duke of Savoy, his father or his young cousins. The cousins won, their mother was a Hapsburg. Allen Brown"

a statement is at Wikipedia at his "possible" father
Thomas Franz (Tomaso Francois). his mother was then another - NOT Marie de Soissons de Bourbon.....so "if" then illegitime and never could be disowned or ever was a prince. simple an illegitime line....but this is also controversial if this person was really an illegitime son of Tomaso Francois.
>>> Oral tradition and some Acadian/Cajun genealogists have attributed Francois Savoie (1621-1678), the patriarch of the Cajun Savoie family of Louisiana and Canada as an illegiate son of Thomas Francis, Prince of Carignan; however, this has been a rather disputed claim. <<<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Francis,_Prince_of_Carig...

Re: Looking for a lost inheritance in London, England

CynthiaPhillips57 — 2010-05-13 21:54:26Z

My maternal grandmother Louise Borel was raised in such a plantation....b. approx:1864 (her father came in from Civil War on furlough) and married Louis Demetrious Lange bearing him 12 children in Jeanerette, La. He died in 1915 due to pneumonia...My mother Agnes Lange Williams b. 6/3/1910 was the last of their 12 children....She would have been 100 this year. I am the youngest of her children, the oldest being deceased. Grandma (Louise Lange) died in 1962 in Houston Texas. I have been informed of such an inheritance.
Any info. deeply appreciated. Cynthia Dean Phillips (Williams) b. 3/16/1957

Cherokee blood

Shockrina — 2010-02-17 21:04:04Z

I've always heard from my Grandmother that she is half Cherokee. Making my dad 1/4 and me 1/8th. I just can't seem to find any information proving that this is true. Does anyone know how to go about searching?

Need help with new project

jeozeran — 2010-02-06 00:53:57Z

Dear Kimsey family researchers,
I’ve decided to embark on a new project, and would like to solicit your help. I hope the project will have some interest to all who are researching the Kimsey family in America.
Without going into unnecessary detail here, I think we would all agree that the search for the origins of Benjamin Kimzey Sr, possibly born about 1725, possibly in Scotland, has resulted in a lot of hard work, false starts, unexpected twists, and, occasionally, some contention over “the truth”.
I’m fascinated by the story (which I will not retell here for reasons that will become clear) and would like to embark on a new research project. Right away I want to emphasize that this is a historiography project, not a geneaology project. I want to learn about the origins and evolution of the Benjamin Kimzey story, separate from the origins of Benjamin Kimsey/Kimzey himself.
Be assured my intention is not to criticize or discredit the work of any family researcher. I only want to look at the story of Benjamin Kimsey as an example of how individuals become icons, how news becomes folklore. I want to use the story, an important part of my own family tradition, to understand the role of oral histories in the creation of our family portraits and our self-identity.
So the help I’m asking for is that anyone with a Benjamin Kimsey story share it with me, and allow me to refer to it in potential publications. I want to hear the stories in your own words, and I want to collect as many published versions as possible as well. Again, my intention is not to be disrespectful of anyone’s feelings about the origins of the family or the characters of our ancestors. Nor do I intend to stir up any new discord in the research community. Although I do expect to come to some conclusions about the value of the story for geneaology, it’s the evolution of the story I want to examine.

Here is what I’d like to know:

1) your story
2) if this is your own retelling, when did you first hear the story? Where, and from whom?
3) if this is a printed version, (not published; for example, an excerpt from a letter from Great Aunt Annie) what is the source? When was it written down?
4) If this is a published version, who is the author? When was it published? Does the author provide any citations?

Please e-mail me privately at jeozera@comcast.net. I look forward to sharing “the history of our history” with all of you. Thanks in advance for your willingness to help!

Janelle Ozeran

Re: Pierced in the Arm by a British sword

LysaNinAZ — 2010-02-05 02:42:10Z

Wow! I forgot this query was even out there! As you can see, it was posted back in 2003, and I have learned so much about my ancestors since then. Thanks for the reply, though. It is appreciated!

Re: Pierced in the Arm by a British sword

MargoMcPhillips — 2010-02-04 17:36:05Z

That is messed up, LOL. William of Orange was William III (of William and Mary fame, English monarchs http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon51.html) and they ruled 1689-1702 (William was born in 1650) whereas Waterloo as fought June of 1815.

All kinds of religious stuff going on in that 100+ years with England doing the Protestant/Catholic switcheroo/revolution and other stuff (nevermind Napoleon) and giving Catholic Ireland a hard time or instigating rebellion (when England was Protestant, the Catholics would try to get "help"/spies, etc. from Spain, Ireland, France).

Napoleon cut off England's trade with Europe so she had to rely on her colonies and didn't have enough men to man her ships so started impressing any and all other nationalities on the high sea (one reason why U.S. fought War of 1812, England was impressing our merchant seamen) so could be that your Irish ancestor got "caught" as he was trying to immigrate but that it was over in 1815, same year as Waterloo.

But a lot of Irishmen joined the English regiments or Irish ones fighting Napoleon, it paid better than poverty :-) they were on the "same" side at that point. The Irish famine (a result of the Irish land being used by the British during/after Napoleon to raise beef and other expensive crops the Irish themselves couldn't afford so they were stuck with potatoes) wasn't until 1845.

Re: Hugging Molly

smj66193550 — 2009-06-01 04:16:08Z

When I was thirteen, my family moved from California to Dothan, AL. I heard the legend of Hugging molly when I moved there from a girl that lived in my neighborhood. I was very skeptical, having never heard people believing in such silliness. So, I decided to go in the woods with this silly girl. We were just walking around when this girl who seemed to be made of red light came towards us with her arms outstretched. She was moving very fast. We ran and I never ventured into the woods again. I often wonder if I just had an overactive imagination or something.

Marie Antoinette and her four children

Mohnbauer — 2009-05-21 15:29:12Z

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Antoinette

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Th%C3%A9r%C3%A8se_Charlot...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Joseph-Xavier-Fran%C3%A7o...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XVII_of_France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Sophie_Beatrix_Elene

Re: Cherokee Ancestor?

kathiestorey1 — 2008-12-16 17:40:09Z

If you look at it...like it is one of those internet stories that have been going around for years...and pick it apart...you'll see that plainly it is a false story, made up back in the who knows when olden days...probably as some sort of childs fable that they should have learned something from. and over time, probably very convincing story tellers made the listener believe in it as truth...and then passed it on as truth.

simple fact A) if a newborn baby is tied to a tree, for someone else to come along and save...
1. how does she know WHY she was tied to a tree
2. how does she know what her hertiage is
3. who where "they" and where were "they" going...that "they" couldn't take the baby with them? If "they" is to imply the baby's mother and father and they were going somewhere together...it doesn't make sense (even with a "threat" of her father...that they wouldn't take the baby.

no offense to your grandmother (and maybe the person she heard it from)...but I think someone was seriously pulling some legs with this one. At the very least...they weren't claiming this baby to be "a real, true, authentic cherokee princess!" oy...

Re: Tex Beneke - My Cousin??

cemcrawler — 2008-12-15 14:45:42Z

Gordon Lee Beneke was born Feb. 14, 1914 in Fort Worth Texas

1920 Census
Fort Worth, Tarrant County, Texas
Beneke
Frank, head, 28, unknown where he or parents were born
Dixie, wife, 25, Texas, unknown, Texas
Gordon, son, 5, Texas, unknown, Texas

1930 Census
Fort Worth, Tarrant County, Texas
Beneke
Frank S., head, 40, 1st married at 25, Kansas, Germany, Wisc
Dixie L., wife, 35, 1st married at 18, Texas, At Sea, Ark.
Gordon L., son, 16, Texas, Kansas, Texas

World War 1 Draft Reg. Cards
Name: Frank S. Beneki
Age: 27
Address: 1117 Allen, Fort Worth, Texas
Born: Nov. 23, 1890
Born: Wichita Falls, Texas
married with 1 child

Re: french royalty?

ElijahShalis — 2008-12-03 20:51:24Z

King Louis XVI had had 13 known illegitimate children. Most of those were by either Louise-Françoise de Le Baume Le Blanc, Mademoiselle de La Vallière, or Françoise-Athénaïs de Rochechouart de Mortemar, marquise de Montespan, and those who survived infancy were legitimated.

By Mademoiselle de La Vallière:
Marie-Anne de Bourbon (1666-1739), Mademoiselle de Blois, leg. 1667 ~ Louis-Armand de Bourbon, prince de Conti, s.p.
Louis de Bourbon (1667-83), comte de Vermandois, leg. 1669 s.p.
By Madame de Montespan:
Louis-Auguste (1670-1736), leg. 1673, duc du Maine et duc d'Aumale: France a baton couped in bend sinister gules
~ Anne-Louise de Bourbon-Condé (1676-1753)
Louis-Constantin (1695-98), prince de Dombes
Louis-Auguste (1700-55), prince de Dombes
Louis-Charles (1701-75), comte d'Eu: France a baton couped in bend sinister gules (Dubuisson)
Louis (1704-08), duc d'Aumale
N. (1694-94), Mademoiselle de Dombes
Louise (1704-43), Mademoiselle du Maine
Louis-César (1672-83), leg. 1673, comte de Vexin, abbot of Saint-Denis
Louis-Alexandre (1678-1737), leg. 1681, comte de Toulouse: France a baton couped in bend sinister gules, duc de Danville 1694-1719, duc de Penthièvre 1697, duc de Châteauvillain 1701, duc de Rambouillet 1711
~ Marie-Victoire de Noailles (1688-1766)
Louis-Marie (1725-93), duc de Penthièvre: France a baton couped in bend sinister gules (Dubuisson)
~ Maria-Teresa d'Este-Modena (1726-54)
N. (1746-49), duc de Rambouillet
Louis-Stanislas (1747-68), prince de Lamballe
~ Marie de Savoie-Carignan (1749-92)
N. (1748-55), duc de Châteauvillain
N. (1750-52), comte de Guingamp
N. (1751-53), Mademoiselle de Penthièvre
Louise-Adélaïde (1753-1821) ~ Louis-Philippe II d'Orléans
Louise-Françoise (1673-1743), Mademoiselle de Nantes, leg. 1673
~ Louis III de Bourbon, prince de Condé
Louise-Marie-Anne (1674-81), Mademoiselle de Tours, leg. 1676
Françoise-Marie (1677-1749), Mademoiselle de Blois, leg. 1681 ~ Philippe II d'Orléans

Re: french royalty?

ElijahShalis — 2008-12-03 20:49:31Z

Yes I was told the same story as a kid and I am doing my genealogy now. I have found that the french canadian vital church records are quite faded. I can tell you that my great grandmother Mary Elizabeth LeDuc is the line it goes on from. She died in Cheboygan Michigan in 5 May 1932. Her parents were Gabriel LeDuc and Zoe Elizabeth Lefebvre supposedly according to documentation. Some of her documents and census records refer to her being born in NY and not Quebec but that could be an error as latter ones refer to Quebec.

Re: strange tails from Yorkshire - coiners hung drwan and quartered

rachelrowe1 — 2008-11-30 21:07:32Z

Hi
My dad recently came to stay and brought with him copies of marriage certificates from the family on his mothers side. Robert Johnson and Annie Pakes got married Keighley 1910. Marriage witnessed by a relative called John Hartley who is supposed to be a descendant of Mark Hartley, David Hartley Brother. Unsure of actual connections as the name Hartley keeps cropping up on the chart.

Re: strange tails from Yorkshire - coiners hung drwan and quartered

stevenrichardhartley — 2008-11-12 13:04:24Z

Hi,

I'm Steve Hartley and created the Yorkshire Coiners website. I'm descended Directly from David Hartley and details of the family tree as far as I have it at present are included in the family history section on the website.

The link on my side is proven undisputedly but there may be other links that have yet to be discovered. The family tree as it stands has a few mistakes which I am working to correct.

As for David Hartley being drawn and quartered after he was hung I am not aware of this. As far as I know after he was hung, his body was cut down and handed to his widow for burial - intact I believe.

Drop me a line through here or the website if you wish to check out a connection.

Re: strange tails from Yorkshire - coiners hung drwan and quartered

jamesandjuliaford — 2008-10-06 08:39:37Z

Hello - the Hartley family have a website about the Coiners -http://www.yorkshirecoiners.com/

Re: strange tails from Yorkshire - coiners hung drwan and quartered

mallen1720 — 2008-09-27 12:38:25Z

I found this about "King David Hartley" the Coiner...

http://www.mytholmroyd.net/features/coiners.html

Didn't say anything about being drawn and quartered though...

strange tails from Yorkshire - coiners hung drwan and quartered

rachelrowe1 — 2008-09-26 16:49:51Z

Hi, I am busy researching my family tree and whilst i am looking for facts it would be great to verify a couple of the family myths.
1) on my Fathers side (D B Rowe, Lancs UK) he used to mention a family connection to David Hartley who was a "coiner" who was famously excecuted in Tyburn Yorks in 1700's. However unable to prove anything yet, does anyone else have any other links to this famous man?
2) On my Mothers side - her mothers family name is Ritcher and they come from Thetford and her Fathers family name is Pain - and we would love to find a link to Thomas Pain ( Rights of Man)

Cherokee Ancestor?

fhughes72 — 2008-09-06 02:21:34Z

I'd like some suggestions on where I can either verify or debunk this bit of family oral history. It comes down from my grandmother, who's father was Wiley Bryant (b.1875 Wolfe County, KY) son of Hiram Bryant (b. 1842 Breathitt Co., KY) and Elizabeth Hollon (b.1845 Wolfe Co., KY). Wiley's wife was Susan Perdue (b. 1879 Lee Co., KY) and I have no idea who her parents were.

The story goes that somewhere back in the family, there was a Cherokee woman who fell in love with a white man and had a child. When the baby was born, they knew they couldn't take it with them, but they didn't want to woman's father to find it. [the reason for this is unclear, but it seems the woman's father was very disapproving of the relationship and would have killed the baby]. At any rate, knowing this the young couple fled into the forest and tied the baby, in a bag, to a tree knowing that someone would find it and it would be cared for.

Years later, the baby grew up and bought a house next door to a Cherokee woman. Being half Cherokee herself, the two began talking and comparing stories, eventually realizing that they were mother and daughter.

Now, this story is pretty unbelievable, but my grandmother told it as truth. If you knew her, you'd know she just wasn't creative to come up with something like this, and she never would have told a story that identified her family as being anything other than white. I'm not proud of that, but she was old and appalachian. Unfortunately my grandmother's gone now and one cousin and I only remember this much detail of the story.

Is anyone familiar with a story like this? Have you found any Cherokee in Bryant, Hollon, or Perdue lines?

keene family mystery or maybe just foolishness

Keene4321 — 2008-08-20 00:01:37Z

when i was 3 and old enough to comprehend ,my grandfather, whose name was elwood ray keene and i called 'pop'told me a story about his grandfather(it could have been his father,but i don't think so.anyway,he must have told it all through my life.it was of how a black man had stolen chickens and as he ran away pop's ''pop''shot and i guess killed him as he was crossing the fence. and when at this part i'd ask,''then what happened?'' pop said,''he went back to bed and called the sheriff in the morning.i know the story's true cause a lie he would'nt say.he had two rulesthat could'nt be broken ,that,and ''carryin tales''he never mentioned church and did'nt make me go,but he was a tough character and never took a backstep to anyone and if he had something bad to say,he'd say it to your face.a capton in,ww1 camouflage unit, i have articles of admiration by his men and comanders.this thing has bugged me all my life and this year i had a very largeshowing atthe nye gallery in oak bluffs and i believe the best painting was that of a black man lying through a white fence with an old bearded man on one side with his side by side open and two lawmen on the other looking down on the sad sceen of a little black girl washing the blood away with a rag and bucket;a small black boy looks at the frame withfear and anger .the painting is the saddest ive ever seen.it just about painted itself one night. there is alot more to this mystery that i'll leave for another time involving aclipping from a newspaper of an old rundown estate with the name of Glasgow and owners ''tubman and keene families''that pop said was theold family house'' but not where this other took place.

Tex Beneke - My Cousin??

tanyalang — 2008-07-22 05:25:26Z

There's a story in my mother's family that we're related to Tex Beneke the famous American saxophonist. The story goes that one brother emigrated from Germany to Australia, and the other to America, the ancestor of Tex (born Gorden Lee) Beneke.

I've traced my Beneke ancestors back to Germany: my great great grandmother Karl Heinrich Nicholaus (later anglicised to Charles Henry Nicholaus) Beneke was born on 6 June 1835 in Neumuenster, Holstein, Germany, the son of Hans Nicholaus Beneke and Wiebke Christina Henrietta Fels. If the story is true (and I have my doubts), his brother would probably be the great grandfather of Tex Beneke who was born in 1914.

The problem I'm having is that I have no idea of how to trace the ancestry of Tex Beneke, just in case the story does turn out to be true. I have never done any family history research using American records (all my ancestry comes from Australia and, earlier, England, France, and Germany), and nowhere have I found a single mention of any of the members of Tex Beneke's famiy.

I would appreciate any help or advice.

Re: Tall Tale or Truth?

MsRock4Ever — 2008-05-13 10:48:55Z

Dear R.,
I would be happy to discuss this further and hear your information. I have changed e-mail addresses twice since my original post about this great mystery man. I've been searching for nearly 25 years for more information.

My new address is MsRock4Ever@comcast.net so please feel free to write me directly if you choose. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Joyce M. Jeffries

Re: Is john Courts from YOrkshire, England or from Castle Mabry, Scotland

halpark — 2007-12-15 23:37:29Z

Firstly Courts/Coates is a very common name in England. Secondly I would suggest you need to check names and places. There is no such Earldom as Aerendale and I am pretty sure there is also no such place as Loch Mabean. A lot of time can be wasted if you are chasing after something which is actually a mispelling/inaccurate transcription or similar. Good luck.

Re: french royalty?

gensearchNC — 2007-07-05 14:35:59Z

You should at least post the surnames in your family or those you feel may come from that line. When you are asking for information and want people to help, give all you have not just a general "we owned a castle, we're from royalty" without giving more information. There are too many possibilities for them all to be listed. Even if the names don't seem to help, it will help others narrow down what you're seeking possibly.

Is john Courts from YOrkshire, England or from Castle Mabry, Scotland

k_courts — 2007-06-27 05:46:31Z

The legend in the Courts family states that John Courts, who came to Maryland in 1639 from Stoke Gregorey Somerset, England and was descended from the Earl of Aerendale. The legend also states that John Courts grew up or was raised at Loch Mabean Castle in Scotland near Dumfries, Scotland. The legend also states that the surname of Courtis or Courts was originally spelled Coates and this Coates family was descended from the Earls of Aerendale. The Earldom of Aerendale and Loch Mabean Castle was the traditional domain of the Bruces, and Robert the Bruce 1200-1250. The surname of Courts and the Courts family connects to the Earls of Aerendale and the surname of Coates/Courts is a sept fo the Farguharison/McDonald clan of Scotland.
It is a fact that John Courts, the immigrant, was married at Oxley Register, Yorkshire, England to Margaret Robinson, who was a daughter of Anthony Robinson, and this wedding occurred circa 1640's.
Also, it is a fact that John Courts ppurchased an indentured servant, Angus McDermont, a Jacobite who was captured at Preston and transported from Liverpool, England on the Godsped with ship master, ARthur Smith, for Virginia on the date of July 28, 1716. In fact, John Courts bought two more indentured servants, who all sailed on the Godsped that transported rebel prisoners into Maryland from Liverpool, England. These were Scotish rebels, called Jacobites, who wanted to restore the Catholic King to the throne of England. The other two men purchased by John Courts were Patrick Mackay, and Daniel Kennedy.
Any information concerning the authenticy of this Courts family legend that the Courts family descends from the Earls of Aerendale would be greatly appreciated, thank you very much
kitty

Looking for a lost inheritance in London, England

k_courts — 2007-06-27 05:18:03Z

On my maternal side of the family there persisted this family legend for years and years, my mother always said that her grandmother, Suzanne Appollnaire Borel, who was the only daughter of Benjamin Borel and his wife, Rosela Clark Andres Borel, of St. Mary Parish, Louisiana, United States, was left an inheritance by her godmother, Anne Ransford, who lived in London, England. In the years of the early 1920's, my mother always said that she remembered my maternal grandmother, Lelia Hebert Deslatte and her sister, Elmina Hebert Haydel, going to see a lawyer in New Iberia, La., because Neville Chamberlin, who was then serving as Chancellor of the Exchequer of England, had come to the State of Louisiana in the United States to search for either Appollnaire Suzanne Borel, who was the wife of Nicolas Mathurin Hebert, Junior, or her heirs, and the reason for the trip of Neville Chamberlin from England to the United States was due to the fact that the estate left by Anne Ransford to her godchild, Appollnaire Suzanne Borel was about to prescribe and the government of England was about to reclaim all the land, money, and other properties. This was the same Neville Chamberlin who served as Prime Minister of England during World War II. My mother always said that in the estate of Anne Ransford my maternal grandmother, Appollnaire Suzanne Borel, had been left money in the bank in England, property on Fleet Street in London, and other valuable things. My mother always concluded that her mother, Lelia, and her aunt, Elmina, always said that they did not have the money to go to England to see about the matter and then the plantation home where all the birth/baptisimal papers, marriage papers, and death records or last wills and testaments were stored had burned and all the vital legal papers were destroyed to prove the idenity that they were the true and legal heirs and representatives of the late, Appollnaire Suzanne Bore, who was the wife of Nicolas Mathurin Hebert. Suzanne Borel was born on August 31, 1835 and she was baptized in the year of 1835 at the Catholic Church in Opelousas, Louisiana or St. Landry Parish.
Then a few years later, a relative shows up with some old papers, in these papes was an old letter that was written to Lelia Hebert Deslatte, from a Camille Gary in Jennings, Louisiana, stating that news from London, England, that a reward will be paid for authentic information concerning the wedding of Anne Ransford (Rainsford) to GEorge Sharpe that occurred 1770-1780 circa or 142 yeas from the date of February 27, 1922, as attorneys in London, England, are attempting to find the heir to millions left by Frank Sharpe Batchelor of London.
Does anyone know anything about this? As like my deceased mother, I have always wondered what is the root of this legend and it would be interesting to find the will of Anne Ransford just to see what exactly her estate consisted of.
Any information would be greatly appreciated, thank you very much
kitty

Re: wild west weekly no.294 june 5,1908-young wild west after"white horse jack"

billycraigjr1961 — 2007-06-16 04:55:01Z

correction..
http:/www.mulibraries.missouri.edu

wild west weekly no.294 june 5,1908-young wild west after"white horse jack"

billycraigjr1961 — 2007-06-16 04:51:43Z

found at the university of missouri librarie "special colections"-dime novels
wild west weekly no.294 june 5,1908
young wild west after "white horse jack"
http:/www.mulibraries.missuouri.edu

Re: Tall Tale or Truth?

RPassantino — 2007-03-23 04:49:22Z

I desperately need to know more about the identity of the man you claim to have more information on. If indeed you have his identity, you are the answer to all my questions and prayers. All of the details you have listed so far seem to relate to the past life of my ancestor. Too many details coincide even if the locations that you mentioned were not familiar to me. I'm very glad to hear that there are descendants. I am so looking forward to hear back from you and to answer any question with the hope that you will have the confirmation I need to determine if finally I have found the past true identity of my ancestor and the new ones of his descendants. I can supply you with the locations in which the crime took place and the motive, as well as the circumstances that led to them. I have personal and family backround information on occupations, professions, country of origen, proof of actual place and date of death. Most of all I have all the information on his new life and the two identities that he assumed after he fled this country and relocated elsewere. He was very good at starting over and conceiling his true identity. The missing death certificate you mentioned proves to me that he staged his death. If he really had seven brothers, that to me also means and proves alot. His son's name is the same as the older son of my ancestor and most of all the marriage date is the same date that I know of as his birthday but I do not have the correct year yet. I wonder if any photos exist somewhere. I surely would be able to determine by looks alone wether he is the one and the same person whose backround and true identity I am searching for. I can't immagine why or how could you have such an interest in this man unless you were to him related. About the book that you mentioned, what motivated you to begin to write it and do you plan to continue if my information is what you need? I as well as you have started doing the same but due to the insufficient knowledge of his real identity in this country I have not been able to connect his new long life with his mysterious old one. I hurge you to please contact me asap. I'll be hoping and praying for some closure on this very important, delicate and personal subject.

Thanks,

Rosanna Groppo Passantino