British Isles Royalty - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Books by Douglas Richardson

paulajtm — 2013-05-06 15:27:39Z

He has published quite a few books on the subject of Royal Ancestry. I have found them to be quite good. I've confirmed one line already (birth death marriage) to where it's a matter of known's. Anyone else have copies and want to discuss?

William De Bryan 1349-1413 and Joan Fitzalan 1360-1404

shawnuhall — 2013-03-13 03:47:35Z

Does anybody know where I can find for sure where William De Bryan and Lady Joan Fitzalan (grand-daughter of Henry Plantagenet) "AKA" King Henry Lancaster were really ever married?? I find some places that say they were, but others that don't. Can anybody help me with this?? Thank you!! :)

Re: Anne of York/Plantagenet....

EBD11 — 2013-02-09 01:28:57Z

See the latest family tree for Anne of York at the University of Leicester site on Richard III, at http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/science/familytree.html , also in less detail through her daughter Anne St Leger, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_St._Leger

Re: Anne of York/Plantagenet....

aida1200 — 2013-02-04 02:37:47Z

I'm sorry to say that it's very unlikley that Cicely of York would have had a child named Welles as early as 1484. It's my understanding that she was unmarried at the time of the death of Richard III (August 22, 1485) and that she was married some time after that to "Lord Welles, the King's [Henry VII's] old uncle." I've read that Lord Welles was a half-brother of Margaret Beaufort by a later (or earlier?) marriage of her mother, so the King whose uncle he was would certainly have been Henry. Since Lord Welles WAS of the generation before Cicely, is it possible that he was married once before and John was the son of his first wife?

Disinherited Princess

wtslaughter — 2013-01-27 00:49:33Z

Hello,

I am just beginning to start piecing my family tree together. I heard things growing up and am hoping that some of the stories passed down may begin to make sense as I find information. One thing that was told to me is that we come from a disinherited princess who came to this country because she married/had a child with a man of color. Since researching, I found that my great, great, great maternal grandmother did indeed arrive from England in around 1870. I do not believe she was actually royalty, but perhaps well-off enough to be disinherited. Even if she were banished from record, I do believe that in this age of technology and information that I would be able to find some inkling of a disinherited Princess since historically, 1870 was not too long ago. When I put in the name and birth information of my great, great grandmother a census comes up from 1930 in Washington DC which shows that her mother lived with her and her husband and children. Her name was listed as Mary Lewis. I see so many Mary Lewis' in records from England around that time with dates of birth similar to mine. However, at this point, I am not even sure that Mary Lewis was her actual name. If it was, I have no information on her possible marriage, maiden name or original family. Does anyone know anything about a royal or member of a wealthy family by the name of Mary Lewis around 1870 (born in 1852/53) who left England with a man of color? We were also told that we have Egyptian ancestry and so we believe that perhaps the man that she married/had a child with, is an Egyptian since I cannot seem to find him anywhere else in my tree as of yet.

Re: Disinherited Princess

StLeonM — 2013-01-25 10:09:18Z

I doubt if she was a princess as her absence from mother England would be carefully documented. It is possible that she may have been a daughter of a noble or gentleman. Possibly she was a lady-in-waiting for a princess. Such women were drawn from the ranks of the nobility anyway. The name "Mary Lewis" sounds sufficiently prosaic to obscure what may have been her true identity. As for the "Egyptian", well possibly anyone of colour in those times could qualify for an "Egyptian". However, it does hint of a "gypsy" - a name derived from "EGYPtian" in the days when it was thought that that was the homeland of these people, not northwest India as we now know). If he was a man of colour, would pre Civil War USA be the place to which to escape? I doubt it. A website called The Peerage - www.thepearage.com - is the most comprehensive collection of British aristocratic genealogies I know of. You could also do word searches of the fine British newspapers now available online from the period, eg British Newspaper Archive, and do word searches. But you may have a long slog. I have been trying to solve the riddle of my own, apparently blueblood, ancestor for several decades but it is painfully slow business. You can see my post at:

http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.royalty.britisles/433/mb.a...

Hope this helps a bit

Mark St Leon
Sydney, Australia

Re: Disinherited Princess

elwynsoutter1 — 2013-01-24 07:45:55Z

The title Princess means you were the Monarch’s daughter. As far as the UK throne is concerned, the lives of each and every one of those women is already extremely well documented, because each might have a claim to the throne. The numbers, even over a period of say 400 years, are not huge, and you ought to be able to check each one out without too much difficulty by following the Queens own family tree back.

I have never heard of any being disinherited, but I may be wrong.

Re: Disinherited Princess

wtslaughter — 2013-01-23 03:12:07Z

Thank you for your response. I will follow your tips. However, I used to dismiss such stories, however in doing my search so far, I have come to find that what was passed down has been true. The women who told me these things were not typically the types to make up stories and now that I am seeing that what they did tell me have turned out to be accurate, I have no reason to believe this is not so as well (at least in some form or to some degree). But thank you once again for your reply and for your suggestions.

Re: Disinherited Princess

warncoort1 — 2013-01-20 06:16:56Z

I doubt there is a family tree program which flags "disinherited princess"so forget the family stories (which are generally told to explain lack of wealth)and just follow normal genealogical procedures.There may have been a will she was excluded from but you will need to trace back to her father or mother before that can be investigated.Finding where in England she was from will be your first step,assuming you have traced back from yourself.

The Davenport, Wooldridge, and Rolfe Families

jewooldridge1 — 2012-09-25 16:29:18Z

Hello,

I have been doing some research into my father's side of the family and have been able to discover that our family is related by blood to the Davenport family of England as well as some other Noble families from Scotland. I am looking to discover more about the family. I have been able to connect some dots through family trees and also through records, sparse though they maybe.

The other families I am looking into are the Wooldridge family and the DeVernon Family. I know that a Roseia DeVernon married into the Davenport in the late 1200s. I also have only been able to trace the Wooldridge line to the 1830s in Green County, Kentucky, USA.

I have also been able to discover that my great-uncle by marriage is a direct descendant of John Rolfe and Pocahontas. If anyone can assist me I would be grateful.

Thanks and Happy Hunting.

Re: Queens coronation dress - crystal necklace

BarriosdeLeon — 2012-08-08 18:15:42Z

Hello Ceri,

I hope this will be a starting point for you. I happen to remember that Norman Hartnell was the designer for that dress and many of the dresses for Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. Here is a website that will provide you with much information about Hartnell and the Coronation dress.

http://www.fashion-era.com/the_queens_robes.htm#The Hartnell Wedding Dress and Pictures

Beer Families of Ireland

photo66666 — 2012-07-15 15:36:43Z

I always thought the Conleys were related to the Murphy Smithwick Beer making families of Ireland who in turn were connected to Catholic Prince Charles Edward Stuart. They still make beer today.

This leads to CSA General JEB Stuart and a fellow by the name of Ned Myers who was the godson of Prince Edward. Prince Edward of course was Queen Victoria's father. You might want to read about Ned Myers in James Fenimore Coopers book the Life of Ned Myers.

If you go back through the Hanover families lines, they have to be related to the Stuarts or they would not be part of the Royal family today.

I believe the name St Leon was De Leon at one time which connects to Henry VIII's first wife and to a fellow by the name of Christopher Columbus.

Re: Baptism of Queen Victoria

photo66666 — 2012-07-15 15:22:17Z

I wonder if this was the same time and place Ned Myers was Baptised. James Fenimore Cooper clearly states Prince Edward was his godfather. Prince Edward was of course Queen Victoria's father.

Re: bowes lyon

Champlain9 — 2012-07-14 16:25:59Z

Bowes Lyon is the late Elizabeth the mother of Elizabeth 11. So the most recent?

Janice

Re: bowes lyon

butchers_girl — 2012-07-14 12:50:46Z

how far back do you want the names? william lyon 1842 cheshire, william lyon 1781-1876 cheshire, john lyon 1736-1816 cheshire. If it helps apparantly were 13th cousins. So its quite distant.

Re: Audio Recording or part recording about Queen Victorias funeral

Champlain9 — 2012-07-14 11:36:50Z

Contact the BBC?

Janice

Re: bowes lyon

Champlain9 — 2012-07-14 11:35:20Z

Do you have any names please?

Janice

Ancestry Admin

Re: Looking for REALLY old Danish kings family tree.

horsenumber2 — 2012-07-09 21:01:13Z

I am asking about the tree so that I can double check it all. It is easier for me to start at the past dates and build up to the prestent. And for a whild I do have it checked, but there are some points that I don't, and that is why I am looking for the tree.

Re: Looking for REALLY old Danish kings family tree.

AGHatchett3rd — 2012-07-05 02:28:40Z

1. How do you know this? Have you personally documented (with actual evidence) each link in your ancestry back to this king?
If not, then I strongly suggest you start. Doing it any other way does not produce a genealogy - it merely creates junkology.

2). Family trees and family group sheets are *NOT* evidence.

Looking for REALLY old Danish kings family tree.

horsenumber2 — 2012-07-04 07:05:03Z

My great something or another was born in year 784 and was King Harold Klack. Does anyone know where I can find a tree that for a back that far?

EVELYN, PRINCESS BLUCHER born in 1876, Brighton, England

2012-06-28 13:05:21Z

Urgently seeking information on EVELYN, PRINCESS BLUCHER, born in 1876 (Brighton, England) as Evelyn Stapleton-Bretherton.

Require information for new book - also family members/decendants.

Please help.

Re: EVELYN, PRINCESS BLUCHER

PMBeckley — 2012-06-28 08:53:19Z

Hi Paddy
Great to hear from you and to learn of the burial places of Edward and Alice - also did not know Oswald had been killed in the Zulu War!
Yes there is a connection to Bartholomew Bretherton - Edward is "via" Bartholomew's brother Peter and if you care to email me on pauline.beckley@tesco.net can give you further details.
In the meantime yes you are right about Bernard and in fact I am in touch with the wife of one of his descendants!!
Looking forward to hearing further direct from you
Best regards
Pauline

Re: EVELYN, PRINCESS BLUCHER

padraig1948 — 2012-06-28 07:46:27Z

Hallo Pauline. I am not a family member, but.. I came across Edward Bretherton(1810), the solicitor, while researching the Garibaldi Riots in Birkenhead in 1862. Edward married Alice Chippendale Reid,they are buried at Flaybrick Cemetry Birkenhead, with their son Oswald, killed in the Zulu War.Could you tell me, if any, the connection between Edward and Bartholomew Bretherton, the Rainhill coach proprietor? Out of a"local" interest, I live in Birkenhead, I would be interested in knowing what happened to Alice and Edward's children. I know Bernard went exploring in Alaska I believe there is a chalice in St Wereburghe's Birkenhead presented to Cyril Bretherton, who I believe was a priest, by his brother Charles. I would be thankful for any information. Take care Paddy

my family tree and get it right

anthonyandmary124 — 2012-06-18 01:09:39Z

hi i wonder if anyone can help i have been trying to find
the right facts to my family tree the borlase family tree.
I got to lady jane grenville that seems alright then i get so far along and then i reach the royal family.

Then the dates always get confusing as some members of the
public members are sometimes different and sometimes the
parents the royal family is the plantagent starting from
King edward 1V right up to king henry 11 and the parents of
john of gaunt and his family i think that he had a daughter.

Called joan beaumont i just like to get the facts right and
not so confusing.

Audio Recording or part recording about Queen Victorias funeral

jamesvenmore — 2012-06-17 12:32:26Z

Hi all

I have just learnt that probably in the last 6 months that there was a program on about Queen Victoria and her funeral or part of it was about the funeral. Not sure which really (most likely TV).

I have known for some time that my great grandfather was interviewed back I think in the 70s about his memory of the funeral as he was in the Corps at the time and stood outside the chapel. Has anyone got a copy of this apparent programme. His name is Harry C Williams or can anyone point me in the right direction to locate a copy of his recording. Thanks
James

The Royal Record (only just published online)

danio2004 — 2012-06-01 12:03:30Z

I have found this and although I can find no relative in the record for any part of my tree I thought I'd share.

The Royal Record is a record of trees and shrubs that were planted in celebration of the coronation of King George VI.
it not only covers the UK but also some of the British overseas territories and in the USA.

use the search box to see if any of your ancestors had anything to do with this side of the coronation or just have a browse as it is quite interesting in it's own right.

http://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/PublicFiles/index.html#/ii/

Queens coronation dress - crystal necklace

cbaker7 — 2012-05-30 22:51:07Z

Hi
I have been asked by my mum to see if we can find out anything more about a crystal necklace she has just inherited.
We already know that my mum inherited it from her mother in law who inherited it from her mother in law - Ethel.
Ethel herself worked on the queens coronation dress as a dressmaker/seamstress.
When the dress was finished and the queen tried it on, she asked for a number of the crystals to be removed from the dress as it was too heavy, these crystals were shared out amoungst the workers who worked on the dress and were made into necklaces and bracelets. Which is what has just been passed down to my mum.
What with it being the queens diamond jubilee year we would just like to know a little about the necklace and whether any others survive.
I wasnt sure where to post this but am hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction.
Thanks
Ceri

bowes lyon

butchers_girl — 2012-05-30 16:25:04Z

Hi
Apparently my family are related to the royal family. How do I go about find this. I did notice my distant relatives were in someone else try with the bowed Lyon,s in however I could not find the person that links the 2 familes

Re: Baptism of Queen Victoria

canyon149 — 2012-05-06 18:43:18Z

Although it hasn't been updated for a few years, you'll find some information about Queen Victoria's baptism at "Royal Christenings" at http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~canyon/christenings.htm

British royal christenings (like most christenings) are recorded in sacramental registers, which I don't believe have been digitized for online viewing. But if you could see Queen Victoria's original christening record, you'd find it in the "Chapel Royal Register Book", sometimes known as the "Royal Register". As other posters have noted, QV was christened at Kensington Palace, but the event was recorded in the register book of the Chapel Royal at St James's Palace, London.

The best you can probably do is to read about QV's christening in *The Times* of June 25, 1819, and in various biographies dedicated to the Queen.

Re: How does one discover where a member of the Royal Family was in 4th Qtr 1774/1st Qtr 1775?

vr120 — 2012-05-05 14:38:19Z

Hi - you've probably got an answer after nearly 9 years!!! However, if you're in the UK, find a library that gives online access to the Burney Collection of newspapers that cover this period. Then hunt through the relevant newspapers. I have found detailed descriptions of the location of the Prince of Wales this way.

Seeking the missing link ...

StLeonM — 2012-04-19 20:21:31Z

Despite over 40 years of research into my family's history, I have long faced an insurmountable obstacle five generations back, my London-born paternal great-great-grandfather, JOHN CONLEY. //

In our **spoken** family lore, John Conley (a) was the son of a “horse trainer to the King of England” (the “King” presumably meaning George IV or William IV) and (b) had served as a “stable boy” at Buckingham Palace. I have no independent corroboration for either of these assertions. Nevertheless, I consider that either or both assertion may contain at least some grain of truth. Either assertion, if proved, could help explain John Conley’s subsequent and successful career in Australia as a professional equestrian and circus proprietor.//

As far as the **written** record speaks, my gg grandfather's name is recorded as John 'Conley' and his age as '15' in an Old Bailey transcript in 1839 and as John 'Connally' and his age as '17' on the 1841 London census. His occupation on the 1839 document was given as that most odorous of professions, 'chimney sweep'. Thus, the 1839 and 1841 documents suggest John CONLEY was born in c.1824.//

However, despite relentless searching, I have not been able to find a record of birth or baptism. The DNA evidence firmly suggests a South Irish paternal ancestry, around the border between Cork and Kerry, perhaps Coolsea or Ballyvourney.//

The 1841 census shows John CONNALLY [sic] domiciled at the same address as his 'master', William ANDREWS, a chimney sweep, in Orchard Street, Westminster, a few blocks away from a well-known Palace. As chimney sweeps go, William ANDREWS seems to have been a respectable chap. He was a householder with a family and continuous address in Orchard Street from c1820 to c1856. The scant shreds of evidence suggest that his chimney sweeping clientele included government offices such as the Foreign Office.//

In a report in the London Despatch of 23 December 1838 there is reference to "Mr ANDREWS, chimney sweeper to Her Majesty". This may well be the William ANDREWS of Orchard Street, the master of my gg grandfather John CONLEY, (although I have noted another chimney sweep in that era of the same name resident at Westminster St James).//

The photographs of my gg grandfather John CONLEY/CONNALLY and his progeny (all very 'regal' looking) and the descriptions I have of him ('sterling character', 'never drank or swore', 'nice speaking voice' etc etc) hardly fit the description of your archetypal chimney sweep. He was, however, only semi-literate and had received only a bible-based 'Sunday School' education.//

I believe that the missing link in this conundrum is the possibility that John CONLEY/CONNALLY was the cast-off illegitimate child of two people in a well-to-do household, one 'upstairs' the other 'downstairs', and given away to a chimney sweep to protect the reputations of one or both parents, but especially the mother if she was the 'upstairs' party.//

I conjecture that the well-to-do household was serviced by the chimney sweep William ANDREWS who was (I further conjecture) offered the base-born boy as an 'apprentice'.//

From the various and incomplete tit-bits of information I have assembled, I conjecture that John CONLEY/CONNALLY was the son of a) an Irish-born horse trainer, equestrian or cavalryman, perhaps attached to the Life Guards or Royal Mews, who presumably bore the name Conley or Connally, and b) a lady considerably higher up the social scale, if not a princess, then perhaps a lady-in-waiting or similar.//

I gather there were quite distinct 'levels' of illegitimacy. For example, it seems that an infant born of an 'upstairs' unmarried couple retained some status within the social hierarchy, even though illegitimate (eg King George IV's illegitimate family). However, a child born of a couple, one 'upstairs' and the other 'downstairs', was a different matter and it may have been prudent to offload/discard the unwanted progeny discreetly and anonymously.//

I have documented my gg grandfather's life for the Australian Dictionary of Biography (under his subsequently assumed professional circus name of Matthew ST LEON) You can see the entry online at:

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/st-leon-matthew-13181

I also attach photographs of my gg grandfather, his children and grandchildren, some in their circus attire. I don't see anyone even remotely comparable to the archetypal chimney sweep. Do you? On the other hand, I see a few that bear some resemblance to archetypal princes and princesses.//

In my sincere pursuit of the truth, I would welcome any advice or suggestions that anyone out there may have. Thanks!//

Dr Mark St Leon
Sydney, Australia

Re: Baptism of Queen Victoria

ChuckWolfram — 2012-04-19 02:22:43Z

To add to that answer: The ceremony was at 3 p.m., and was held in the Cupola Room of Kensington Palace. The gold font was used. The archbishop of Canterbury and the bishop of London officiated. The only guests present were the duke and duchess of York, Princess Augusta, the duke and duchess of Gloucester (he was the future William IV), the Prince Regent (the future George IV), Prince Leopold, Princess Sophia, and Victoria's father the duke of Kent. The baptism was registered in the Chapel Royal of St. James. The duke and duchess of Kent held a dinner party that night; the Prince Regent did not attend.

Re: Baptism of Queen Victoria

AGHatchett3rd — 2012-04-18 03:32:02Z

Queen Victoria was christened in Kensington Palace 24 Jun 1819. It was a small ceremony as the Prince Regent had forbidden any festivities and decreed that no uniforms were to be worn and no foreign dignitaries be allowed to attend.

Re: employees of buckingham palace

StLeonM — 2012-04-17 20:36:43Z

You could check UK census for Buckingham Palace from 1841 and every 10 years thereafter to see who was listed within the royal household.

Baptism of Queen Victoria

StLeonM — 2012-04-17 20:35:02Z

I have been looking for the 1819 baptism/christening of Queen Victoria on-line (under her birth name of Alexandrina Victoria) but there does not seem to be anything out there. Does anyone know where she/other royals are/were baptised/christended? Are these records online?

Thanks!

Re: employees of buckingham palace

elwynsoutter1 — 2012-04-01 18:04:49Z

Write to:

The Royal Archives
Round Tower
Windsor Castle
Windsor
Berkshire SL4 1NJ

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

AGHatchett3rd — 2012-03-16 02:51:31Z

Have you located him on the 1861 census?

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

jfharvey1 — 2012-03-15 07:41:15Z

Thank you for the helpful suggestion. Have already tried that avenue without success. Was told that their records of those who worked for the Royal Household are not comprehensive and suggested that my grandfather may have been employed by another member of the Royal Family or by a senior member of the household in which case it was unlikely that there would be record of him there. It was certainly worth a try.
June.

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

Titokiworldwide — 2012-03-15 00:14:55Z

That's excellent information, thank you :-)

I look forward to posting a positive outcome in the not too distant future (fingers crossed).

Cheers
Hilary

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

halpark — 2012-03-14 10:20:19Z

In case your query has gone walkies just google "Royal Archives". Full instructions on the packet!! I understand everything is in writing, the old-fashioned stuff, and can be slow, but they are very helpful.

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

Titokiworldwide — 2012-03-14 08:47:05Z

Hi June
Did you see the message about the Royal Archives? It sounds like that would be a good avenue for your enquiry too. I have already written off to Buck Palace so will wait and see what sort of reply I get. It may be that they pass on my enquiry to the right place.
I'll keep you informed as to how I get on :-)
Hilary

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

Titokiworldwide — 2012-03-14 08:44:15Z

Thanks for that. I didn't know that there was a Royal Archives so that is good to know. In the meantime I have written to Personnel Records, B Palace, so hopefully they will pass on my enquiry if that is the right place to go. Thanks, I'll let you know how I get on.

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

halpark — 2012-03-11 20:15:06Z

Try the Royal Archives at Windsor, they will probably have lists of employees.

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

jfharvey1 — 2012-03-10 07:31:31Z

Hi Hilary,
No, I did not get any respomse from my posting and am no nearer finding out anything.
Hope you have better luck.
Best wishes,
June.

Re: Buckingham palace employee 1860-65

Titokiworldwide — 2012-03-09 10:20:31Z

I see you posted this enquiry quite some time ago. Did you ever find out the answer? I find myself in the same situation with my grtgrandfather, but he was there in 1911. Cheers
Hilary

employees of buckingham palace

Odielion8462 — 2012-02-25 20:49:41Z

I just found out that my great grandmother Isabella Jane McLaren was employeed at Buckinham Palace and that is where she met my great grandfather James Alexander Monro. I am wondering if there is any way to locate any record to back up that fact. Any ideas? My great grandfather also was living with his aunt (perhaps because his parents died, and their last name was Hawethorne, and James changed his name to Monro) any help out there is greatly appreciated.

bastard son of King John and my linage

merl_barbara_love — 2012-02-14 00:23:04Z

While working on my lineage for DAR here in USA, I found the wife to our patriot John Penick whose wife is - Mary Mallory whose ines supposedly goes back to dean of Chister Thomas Mallory and further back, to lord Marimon and John De Gray. Our relative would be Richard Fitzroy - illigate son of King John and his "wife/cousin".

So...I have worked up to the mallory and need any suggestions on further linkage

thanks

carol

Re: Trace of Lady in Waiting to Queen Victoria

mumufincham — 2012-01-21 03:47:19Z

Hello Thornton - This family tree thingy is fast becoming my worst nightmare! I got myself tied into knots trying to update both maternal and paternal family trees simultaneously so spent today visiting both wellknown graveyards in CT, then passing on information to a cousin on the maternal side,then spending the last 8 hours sorting out what seemed like 1000s of documents and at last they're in order - somewhat! Since January last year, sadly rather infrequently, I had email correspondence and phone chats with Jeff Joubert who I presume is your father? - Joy Bain had told me that he was enquirying about my email and mentioned having met me and my 3 children in 1980. In his last email he mentioned that his eldest son, Thornton, -
?you? - was in the UK and had done some research for visa purposes. I first met Jeff when he was in CT at the same time Thorny was staying with me after my father's death in Nov 1980. Incidentally I would love to get any notes you have which might enhance mine - my email is megallen@telkomsa.net but I don't place much store on info from the internet as I've seen much too many mistakes and quite ludicrous ones at that! In the meantime to put you in the picture - Benjamin Thornton Fincham & Temperance Binding Jeffery were my great grandparents - he was born at Roydon Hall, Norfolk in April 1820, died Oct 1871 - she in England in 1811 - married in London in 1837 - and she died on 9 Feb 1852 in Graaff Reinet - buried by a Rev William Long of St James Church but a search of church records in the 1980 by a librarian there proved fruitless - there was no record of her burial! They had 4 children, the youngest of whom was John Zachariah - my grandfather b.1850, d.1908 - who married Mary Nelson. Their first 4 babies died in infancy, after which they had another 10 who survived, being aunts and uncles viz Emily (Emmy), Temperance known as Tempy (sp?)(and that's where all the confusion arises as on the original Tree, which I have had corrected, it gives all that entirely incorrect information. For heavens sake like all her siblings she was born in SA, not in England, so was certainly not entitled to any such title as Lady. That info about being a titled Lady, and if it can be proved, also lady-in-waiting to Queen Vic in fact appertain to the Temperance who was her born and bred English grandmother. The younger Temperance is my aunt who married Henry Joubert and their issue as I'm sure you know - was my cousins Henry Thornton (Thorny), Beatrice who died in infancy, and Elizabeth Harriet. The latter inherited, rather unfortunately!! (maybe by virtue of the fact that she was called Temperance after her grandmother), the gold ring with the inscription "Member of the Royal Household" engraved in Latin on the inside. According to Thorny she probably "pawned it in order to replenish her liquor stocks"! Then Thorny married Caroline Lotter which resulted in Joan, Lorraine and Jeffrey Henry, your father. After the birth of Temperance came Robert Nathaniel (only known as Rob); Anne who married the Irish Paddy Badham-Thornhill; then Caroline Mary (known as Polly) who married the Irish George Ferguson Sloane; Elizabeth May (known as Bessie) who married the Irish Richard (known as Dick) Burroughs; Edwin/Edward (known as Eddie) Frederick; John Josiah the one who was sports crasy and trained boxing champions; Florence Violet (known by her 2nd name); and last, but not least, my father, Albert Newton, also known as Jack! Most of them you'll notice were baptished with one name but were called by another - just to confuse the issue even more. On a lighter note, Aunty Violet had 2 sons - the one baptised Cecil (Sassin) after his father was given the name of Oogeboo by his nanny which I heard meant 'beautiful baby' in whatever language they speak in Kimberley - but for the rest of his life it was shortend to Boo. So...this Family Tree can make one craaaaazy - about 40 John's, many Benjamins, many Thorntons either as 1st or 2nd names, and as if it wasn't enuf to have one Temperance in the family, my grandparents go and give the poor child that name too - no wonder she preferred the short form! What a laugh it would have been if Harriet had been called Temperance!!!! - maybe that elusive ring would still be in the family. Looking forward to hearing from you. Incidentally where in the UK are you located? Ciao Muriel

Humphries & spouses connection to royality?

JKnutson19 — 2012-01-19 08:35:41Z

it seems a lot of my relatives connections got back to earls, dukes, king, and queens. but these names i hit a roadblock and if anyone can help fill in the blanks please write me back.
margaret murphy (nothing more but assume england) born 1765 virginia, usa husband john humphries.
john humphries wife elizabeth tignor born 1708 virginia, usa (have her father as philip but nothing more but assume go back to england).
joseph humphries born 1680 virginia, usa wife mary haney born 1680 virginia, usa (nothing more but assume england).
john humphries born 1655 virginia, usa wife ann north born 1655 virginia, usa (nothimg more but assume england).
john humphries born 1604 england (name goes way back to fighting beside royality).
anyone feedback be great.

Lady Elizabeth Mortimer and John Kinge (Kynge)

thehanleys185 — 2012-01-07 07:44:58Z

There are some trees that claim Elizabeth Mortimer (1371-1417) was married to John King/Kinge/Kynge. Does anyone know where this came from, because it does not seem to be borne out by any sources I have found.

Thanks All!